Evangelicals with gay children challenging church

[cjforJesus]

I’m not promoting anything. I was just responding to Joie de Vivre who was addressing me and reminding me that I must consider same-sex relations a s\in./QUOTE

The bible explicitly condemns sodomy.Your religion does not consider sodomy a sin though. Sodomy is one of the sins that cry out to heaven and it is one of the sins that signifies a civilization is on the brink of destruction.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Suicide is not limited to gay teens and there is no evidence that the therapy caused the young man to kill himself.He may have had a depressive disorder that was not properly treated. Compassion is very important but also condoning genital acts of masturbation under the guise of love is hardly the way to solve the rampant rise of a pro sodomy society that hides under the guise of “freedom of sexual expression”

For the sake of argument let us assume that this child had a depressive disorder and that this disorder did not stem from the “therapy.” What does that say about how concerned the people who provided his “therapy” were about his actual well being if they didn’t bother to do basic mental evaluations prior to the start of his “therapy” and to continue to monitor his mental health during the course of the “therapy” if said disorder was unknown and/or improperly treated?

 

[adrift]

The passage in 1 Corinthians does not say anything about “sodomites” and the concept of “sodomy” as a sexual sin did not even exist before the 11th century when it was first used by the Catholic theologian Peter Damian.

The “concept” existed as a sin since the Old Testament. The “word” sodomy was only existence since the 13th century according to the Webster dictionary. The act has always been a sin, and still is a sin. Obviously St. Damian knew it was a sin.

The Greek word used in Paul is “arsenokoitai” which appears to have been invented by Paul since it is not known in any Greek text before him.

Since there wasn’t a word for sodomy it makes perfect sense that he invented a word.

It is made up of the Greek words “arsen” which means “man” and “koitai” which means “beds.”

Man Bed sounds like homosexual.

It’s exact meaning is unknown.

The sense of the text narrows it down

It could hardly have been intended by Paul to refer to sexual activity between males since he would have used the standard Greek word for that which was “paiderasste.”

Greek translation of homosexual: arsenokoitai vs paiderasste

I can tell you that Greek word paiderastia does not mean homosexual as in two adults in a same-sex relationship. It means “lover of boys.” It is a particular word, with a particular meaning-- one who sodomizes boy children.

Paidos- child, boy
Erastes/Erastai - love/lover

From it we get English words pederast and pedophile.

I cannot help you with the other word.

 

[frobert]

The Church does not support Reparative Therapy and never has.

Sorry, not true. Conversion therapy has existed from the time of Jesus:

1 CORINTHIANS 6
" Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. That is what some of you used to be; but now you have had yourselves washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

The Catholic Church also does currently support conversion therapy:

ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/homohope.HTM

Sorry, 1 CORINTHIANS 6 is about the forgiveness of sins through Jesus not about conversion therapy, unless you equate forgiveness of sins to conversion therapy.

The link you provided refers to a pamphlet by the Catholic Medical Association which I doubt can speak for the Catholic Church. To be kind, the information contained in the pamphlet is at best highly debatable and like conversion therapy itself can be harmful to susceptible people.

There is a reason that all leading mental health professional organizations have ethical issues with conversion therapy. It’s because it has proven to be more harmful than helpful.

Have people change orientations. Of course they have. Homosexuality comes in many varieties some of which are transitory and some that are more likely to change than others. I usually recommend a book by Lionel Ovesey: ‘Homosexuality and Pseudohomosexuality’ The book is a valuable reference book for anyone that is interested in the subject.

 

[adrift]

And many Christians and Catholics practice sodomy, which includes oral sex (any kind of sexual act that is not intercourse).

.

Do they? As delicate as possible what is oral sex? The definition I believe is completion of the sex act and it is oral. Oral foreplay is not the same as oral sex.

 

[Thorolfr]

The “concept” existed as a sin since the Old Testament. The “word” sodomy was only existence since the 13th century according to the Webster dictionary. The act has always been a sin, and still is a sin. Obviously St. Damian knew it was a sin.

Since there wasn’t a word for sodomy it makes perfect sense that he invented a word.

Man Bed sounds like homosexual.

The sense of the text narrows it down

Greek translation of homosexual: arsenokoitai vs paiderasste

The word “sodomy” (“sodomia” in Latin) has very specific meanings in Catholic theology and is not confined to same-sex relations. Heterosexual couples can also engage in sodomy. The word sodomite in the way used by medieval Catholic theologians is not synonymous with the word “homosexual”.

 

[Thorolfr]

The bible explicitly condemns sodomy.Your religion does not consider sodomy a sin though.

My religion is Christianity, presumably the same as yours, just a different denomination. I was, after all, baptized in a Christian church in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Also, as I said before, my denomination, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), does not have any official position on the subject of homosexuality. There are a wide variety of beliefs within the ELCA with some members (even in my own congregation) who consider it a sin and some who don’t.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

The passage in 1 Corinthians does not say anything about “sodomites” and the concept of “sodomy” as a sexual sin did not even exist before the 11th century when it was first used by the Catholic theologian Peter Damian. The Greek word used in Paul is “arsenokoitai” which appears to have been invented by Paul since it is not known in any Greek text before him. It is made up of the Greek words “arsen” which means “man” and “koitai” which means “beds.” It’s exact meaning is unknown. It could hardly have been intended by Paul to refer to sexual activity between males since he would have used the standard Greek word for that which was “paiderasste.”

It is best translated into English as catamite more broadly referring to a receptive partner because you had to be that specific for a people that did distinguish morality wise between the “top” and “bottom”.

I did not write relationship i wrote relations as in sexual relations

The concept of “committed sex” does not make sense.

The word “sodomy” (“sodomia” in Latin) has very specific meanings in Catholic theology and is not confined to same-sex relations. Heterosexual couples can also engage in sodomy. The word sodomite in the way used by medieval Catholic theologians is not synonymous with the word “homosexual”.

Correct, it simply refers to inherently sterile sexual acts whether that be a man with a woman, a man with a man, a woman with a man, a man with a beast or a woman with a beast.

 

[adrift]

The word “sodomy” (“sodomia” in Latin) has very specific meanings in Catholic theology and is not confined to same-sex relations. Heterosexual couples can also engage in sodomy. The word sodomite in the way used by medieval Catholic theologians is not synonymous with the word “homosexual”.

That does not change that homosexual was considered a sin before the 11th century.
Catholic dictionary

In general, unnatural sexual relations. The term is derived from the biblical city of Sodom on the Dead Sea, destroyed with the city of Gomorrah because of the wickedness of the people (Genesis 13:10). More particularly, sodomy is homosexuality between male persons or between a human being and an animal. (Etym. French sodomie; from Latin Sodoma, Sodom.)

 

[Thorolfr]

Do they? As delicate as possible what is oral sex? The definition I believe is completion of the sex act and it is oral. Oral foreplay is not the same as oral sex.

And here people in this forum constantly point out that certain body parts are only supposed to be used in certain ways. So I take it that a penis in a mouth with heterosexual married couples (as long as the sex act is not completed) is a proper use for those two body parts.

 

[adrift]

And here people in this forum constantly point out that certain body parts are only supposed to be used in certain ways. So I take it that a penis in a mouth (as long as the sex act is not completed) is a proper use for those two body parts.

Yep

 

[Thorolfr]

Yep

LOL…how convenient for heterosexual couples

 

[adrift]

And here people in this forum constantly point out that certain body parts are only supposed to be used in certain ways. So I take it that a penis in a mouth with heterosexual married couples (as long as the sex act is not completed) is a proper use for those two body parts.

Yep

Of course only if the sex act is completed in the normal way and it only used as foreplay.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Of course only if the sex act is completed in the normal way and it only used as foreplay.

Correct, otherwise they are sodomites.

 

[Emily2014]

No,you do not but to promote mortal sin is quite offensive. You may have an opinion but there are many other forums that welcome that behavior.

Does the Catechism tell us to be judgemental and to question how others live their lives? Have we each not enough sins of our own to deal with? Why seek to offend and distress others who choose to follow a different ( albeit equally loving ) path? It doesn’t seem to be a Christian attitude at all. :nope:

 

[adrift]

Does the Catechism tell us to be judgemental and to question how others live their lives? Have we each not enough sins of our own to deal with?

2447 of the Catechism
The spiritual works of mercy are:
•To instruct the ignorant;
•To counsel the doubtful;
**•To admonish sinners; **
•To bear wrongs patiently;
•To forgive offences willingly;
•To comfort the afflicted;
•To pray for the living and the dead

Why seek to offend and distress others who choose to follow a different ( albeit equally loving ) path? It doesn’t seem to be a Christian attitude at all. :nope:

It isn’t Christian to promote sin which is not an equally loving path at all.

 

[adrift]

By what right do we judge others? God alone has that right. We should surely look into our own lives and try to improve ourselves with the help of Our Blessed Lord.

Judge Not?
By: Jim Blackburn

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

LOL…how convenient for heterosexual couples

Yes it is very convenient for heterosexual couples. It is also proper, normal and natural sexual relations…

Unless you can show that homosexual sex is proper, normal and natural.

 

[cjforJesus]

Of course only if the sex act is completed in the normal way and it only used as foreplay.

Actually I am not sure that is entirely true. There are no magisterial documents stating what is permissible in regards to sexual activity between married couples. If there is I cannot find them. The Catechism makes no mention of it either. The only thing I can find is the condemnation of homosexual acts(sodomy) as sinful. In no case can they be approved.

 

[Catholic13]

Does the Catechism tell us to be judgemental and to question how others live their lives? Have we each not enough sins of our own to deal with? Why seek to offend and distress others who choose to follow a different ( albeit equally loving ) path? It doesn’t seem to be a Christian attitude at all. :nope:

Ignoring sin is not loving Emily. You were shown the bible passages [where we are asked to remind others of their sinful ways] in another thread. Did you forget already?