Evangelicals with gay children challenging church

[estesbob]

I guess that we will all find out one day if we made the correct choices.

I’m sure that most Protestants feel the same about the Catholic Church

Perhaps. But then they have to reconcile the fact that God allowed his church to be in serious error for 1,500 years and then waited another 500 years to reveal that females ordination and homosexual behavior was okay.

 

[commenter]

I think that the purpose of religion is to bring one into relationship with God and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America has been the best church for me in that regard. My inability to feel welcome in a Baptist church (or a Catholic Church) because of the extreme hostility to gay people in many congregations would create an insurmountable obstacle for me.

From Wikipedia, quoting from denominational statements: (The ELCA opposes “laws that deny access to safe and affordable services for morally justifiable abortions,” and “laws that are primarily intended to harass those contemplating or deciding for an abortion.”)
I’m not sure “feeling” is the best way to follow the One who defined Himself as “The Truth”, but even if it were, that ELCA position would make me feel uncomfortable. First is the problem that the denomination repudiated much of its former prolife tradition that it previously held as sacred, not changeable. If they can reverse convictions thought to be permanent in one area, how permanent are its convictions in other areas?

But the more basic problem is the sacredness of human life, itself. It would make me feel horrible to support the weakening of that - which is what every member of that denomination indirectly is doing, by remaining there.

 

[WilT]

I guess that we will all find out one day if we made the correct choices.

I’m sure that most Protestants feel the same about the Catholic Church

Thank you Thorolfr for being upfront with your life choice and religion. You come across as gentle and caring. We come across and at times bombarded with homosexual person aggressively challenging our Catholic morals. I believe your not challenging them. Sometimes are need for companionships makes us settle for less because many of us don’t want to be alone. But ultimately we want to please God so we at times have to put our desires behind especially ones that are sinful. In my life I can decide to get together with someone outside of my Faith and it’s morals but at this point and time of my life I put that desire away because I want to please God with my life. I don’t say this to get a pat on my back but because I desire all those that seek morally compromising relationships to think twice on getting together. Pleasing God is ultimately the greatest joy!

 

[BrassAnkles]

I think that the purpose of religion is to bring one into relationship with God and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America has been the best church for me in that regard. My inability to feel welcome in a Baptist church (or a Catholic Church) because of the extreme hostility to gay people in many congregations would create an insurmountable obstacle for me.

In the Catholic Church everyone is welcome, just not their sins.

Therefore, be respectful of this and keep your active homosexual lifestyle and lobbying to yourself and you will be received well.

 

[BrassAnkles]

In a lot of these threads I see there is a frequent theme that somehow the Catholic Church rejects homosexuals. This is not true of course, the Catholic Church rejects sin and will not allow it to be promoted.

Also, if an adulterer comes to Church bragging about his exploits and telling everyone how great it is to have sex outside of marriage would he be received well? Of course not.

 

[BrassAnkles]

Thank you Thorolfr for being upfront with your life choice and religion. You come across as gentle and caring. We come across and at times bombarded with homosexual person aggressively challenging our Catholic morals. I believe your not challenging them. Sometimes are need for companionships makes us settle for less because many of us don’t want to be alone. But ultimately we want to please God so we at times have to put our desires behind especially ones that are sinful. In my life I can decide to get together with someone outside of my Faith and it’s morals but at this point and time of my life I put that desire away because I want to please God with my life. I don’t say this to get a pat on my back but because I desire all those that seek morally compromising relationships to think twice on getting together. Pleasing God is ultimately the greatest joy!

Actually Thor is and has been challenging our Catholic morals. It is apparent from his posts that is one of his main goals in fact.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

In the Catholic Church everyone is welcome, just not their sins.

Therefore, be respectful of this and keep your active homosexual lifestyle and lobbying to yourself and you will be received well.

He is talking about the laity being the problem; he said nothing about the Church herself being extremely hostile to him.

In a lot of these threads I see there is a frequent theme that somehow the Catholic Church rejects homosexuals. This is not true of course, the Catholic Church rejects sin and will not allow it to be promoted.

Also, if an adulterer comes to Church bragging about his exploits and telling everyone how great it is to have sex outside of marriage would he be received well? Of course not.

Quite a few are assumed to be gay by their appearance.

 

[Nihilist]

How does this follow the teachings of Jesus Christ? God loves us all equally and “rejects” none of His children.
By what right do we judge others? God alone has that right. We should surely look into our own lives and try to improve ourselves with the help of Our Blessed Lord.

Christ said, “Heaven and earth will pass away before the Law passes away.” (Mt) The Law say that homosexuality is an abomination. (Lev)

God gives the Law, and judges according to the Law. “We only know God if we keep his commandments” (1 Jn)

 

[on_the_hill]

Quite a few are assumed to be gay by their appearance.

Like “Lyle, the Effeminate Heterosexual,” by Dana Carvey.

And quite a few who are gay are assumed to be straight by their appearance. I knew several gay guys in college who my dad thought were the epitome of straight young men because they presented a military-like attention to fitness and grooming.

 

[estesbob]

He is talking about the laity being the problem; he said nothing about the Church herself being extremely hostile to him.

Quite a few are assumed to be gay by their appearance.

I haven’t seen that and and I have been extremely involved with Parish ministries,including a stint as director of RCIA,for over 40 years. Open ,practicing homosexuals ,don’t feel welcome in the Church because the Church will not accept their sinful behavior. Those with SSA who do not accede to their temptations have no problem with acceptance They are as welcome as the rest of us sinners.

 

[Nihilist]

Like “Lyle, the Effeminate Heterosexual,” by Dana Carvey.

And quite a few who are gay are assumed to be straight by their appearance. I knew several gay guys in college who my dad thought were the epitome of straight young men because they presented a military-like attention to fitness and grooming.

I believe that is common among homosexuals…Sorry, but there it is.

Straight people who seem a little ‘gay’, are often intelligent and sensitive. Don’t judge by appearances.

Don’t generalise. People are different. But sodomy is always a sin.

 

[WilT]

Actually Thor is and has been challenging our Catholic morals. It is apparent from his posts that is one of his main goals in fact.

Perhaps BrassAnkles, but to the thread I answered to he was genuine and articulate. I sensed no “lobbying” which was quite refreshing.

 

[on_the_hill]

I believe that is common among homosexuals…Sorry, but there it is.

Straight people who seem a little ‘gay’, are often intelligent and sensitive. Don’t judge by appearances.

Don’t generalise. People are different. But sodomy is always a sin.

I, myself, had been “accused” / assumed to be gay more than once. I’m sensitive and intelligent, and for a while was a single man living in a predominantly gay neighborhood in a city with a reputedly large gay population.

Ironically, my apartment was literally a block away from our cathedral, which sits on a street well-known for “cruising” after dark, and is literally in the shadow of our state capitol dome.

 

[estesbob]

I, myself, had been “accused” / assumed to be gay more than once. I’m sensitive and intelligent, and for a while was a single man living in a predominantly gay neighborhood in a city with a reputedly large gay population.

Ironically, my apartment was literally a block away from our cathedral, which sits on a street well-known for “cruising” after dark, and is literally in the shadow of our state capitol dome.

“Accused” by who? I am not sensitive or intelligent and have been presumed to be a Neanderthal but never at my Church.

 

[Peter_Plato]

“Accused” by who? I am not sensitive or intelligent and have been presumed to be a Neanderthal but never at my Church.

You don’t seem a bit Neanderthal in your profile picture. Embryonic, perhaps, but not Neanderthal.

 

[clem456]

I think that the purpose of religion is to bring one into relationship with God and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America has been the best church for me in that regard. My inability to feel welcome in a Baptist church (or a Catholic Church) because of the extreme hostility to gay people in many congregations would create an insurmountable obstacle for me.

Most congregations are hostile to people of one type or another. There are individuals in our parish who would not welcome an openly gay person. Surely the door to the church is open, but welcoming to ministries and social life? Probably no. That is unfortunate and tragic.

I myself am not welcome in certain circles in my parish because I had a child out of wedlock 25 years ago,. Again, the door to the church is open, but there are ministries that I will never be part of and gatherings that I will never be part of. It’s a small town and everybody knows everybody’s business.

So how to proceed?
It’s seldom the best course of action to embrace that which simply makes me feel good about myself. Feelings are not God. I embrace my faith because I believe it’s true and good for me and the rest of mankind. Catholicism does not always give me a soft shoulder in my failings. Rather a thorn in my side, and that’s a good thing. I’m not leaving the faith because I am at odds with what it teaches.

It’s important to separate objective truth from our own stupidity and sinfulness. What the Church proclaims is independent of the sinfulness of our members.
If I need a brain operation tomorrow, I want the best doctor available. I am not going to refuse an operation from the top doctor because he is gay, or he did this or that. His shortcomings don’t change truth. (there are obviously limitations to this analogy).

 

[on_the_hill]

“Accused” by who? I am not sensitive or intelligent and have been presumed to be a Neanderthal but never at my Church.

Sorry. I didn’t realize the discussion was at this point limited to accusations made at church. I meant in the general population.

 

[SMGS127]

I haven’t seen that and and I have been extremely involved with Parish ministries,including a stint as director of RCIA,for over 40 years. Open ,practicing homosexuals ,don’t feel welcome in the Church because the Church will not accept their sinful behavior. Those with SSA who do not accede to their temptations have no problem with acceptance They are as welcome as the rest of us sinners.

You likely don’t see it because you don’t experience it (aka you aren’t gay). Similar to how no one thinks divorced people are treated badly unless they see it firsthand (e.g. by being divorced).

My parish is miserable to go to, on the other hand. I dread having to go to Mass every week because I don’t know if it’ll be the week I have to put up with a rant about gay people in the homily, the people in the parish are absolutely fine with everyone in the parish as long as they’re super-conservative on every single issue, even those unrelated to doctrine, and it’s gotten to the point where I am terrified of someone finding out I am a lesbian so as to avoid social isolation. I already get dirty looks from people who suspect it.

So excuse me if I don’t accept the “Catholic parishes are fine; I’ve never experienced anti-gay discrimination as a straight person!” line.

 

[estesbob]

You likely don’t see it because you don’t experience it (aka you aren’t gay). Similar to how no one thinks divorced people are treated badly unless they see it firsthand (e.g. by being divorced).

My parish is miserable to go to, on the other hand. I dread having to go to Mass every week because I don’t know if it’ll be the week I have to put up with a rant about gay people in the homily, the people in the parish are absolutely fine with everyone in the parish as long as they’re super-conservative on every single issue, even those unrelated to doctrine, and it’s gotten to the point where I am terrified of someone finding out I am a lesbian so as to avoid social isolation. I already get dirty looks from people who suspect it.

So excuse me if I don’t accept the “Catholic parishes are fine; I’ve never experienced anti-gay discrimination as a straight person!” line.

I believe I have heard exactly one homily on homosexuality in all my years in the Catholic Church. If this is a common occurrence in your Parish I suggest you find another parish Pronto .

 

[BrassAnkles]

I haven’t seen that and and I have been extremely involved with Parish ministries,including a stint as director of RCIA,for over 40 years. Open ,practicing homosexuals ,don’t feel welcome in the Church because the Church will not accept their sinful behavior. Those with SSA who do not accede to their temptations have no problem with acceptance They are as welcome as the rest of us sinners.

This is the truth from what I have seen.

Throughout my life it has been common for some people to assume I am gay, yet I have never been rejected in any Catholic Church nor has anyone ever even come out and asked me in the Church.