Evangelicals with gay children challenging church

[Thorolfr]

In the Catholic Church everyone is welcome, just not their sins.

Therefore, be respectful of this and keep your active homosexual lifestyle and lobbying to yourself and you will be received well.

What kind of lobbying do you imagine that I might ever do in a church? At the Lutheran church I attend now, I’ve never introduced myself by saying, “Hello, I’m Thorolfr and I’m gay!”. My partner and I rarely even sit together because he sings in the choir and sits with the choir and I usually sit by myself in the pews. Nevertheless, people in our church assume that we are a couple because we arrive together in the same car every Sunday; we are listed as living at the same address in the church directory; we arrive together at social gatherings associated with the church. It’s no different than all the straight couples at the church. I see lots of couples that I assume are married and belong together even though I’ve never actually asked them if that is the case and if they are having sex with each other. For all I know, some of them might be a brother and his sister, but like everyone else, I just make assumptions sometimes which might turn out to be wrong. Now after about three years at that church, everyone assumes that my partner and I are a couple and they treat us that way even though no one has ever come out and asked us if that is the case and we have never told anyone that that is the case except for a few close friends. If someone ever did ask us if we are gay, I would tell them the truth, but I’m not going to make an announcement or anything.

 

[Thorolfr]

I myself am not welcome in certain circles in my parish because I had a child out of wedlock 25 years ago,. Again, the door to the church is open, but there are ministries that I will never be part of and gatherings that I will never be part of. It’s a small town and everybody knows everybody’s business.

My aunt went to a Baptist church in the small town that she lived in. She was a wonderful person, helped out at the church a lot, went to visit sick people in the hospital all the time, etc. But after she got a divorce and remarried, even after a few decades, a lot of people at her church never treated her the same as they did before.

 

[on_the_hill]

I believe I have heard exactly one homily on homosexuality in all my years in the Catholic Church.

I think you’ve got me beat by one.

 

[clem456]

My aunt went to a Baptist church in the small town that she lived in. She was a wonderful person, helped out at the church a lot, went to visit sick people in the hospital all the time, etc. But after she got a divorce and remarried, even after a few decades, a lot of people at her church never treated her the same as they did before.

If your aunt is a believing Baptist the actions of Baptist individuals should not erode her trust in the truths contained in the faith. But in practice more people are turned away from Christianity by hypocrisy than anything else. Hypocrisy doesn’t make Christianity false though. It’s hard to separate the belief from the actions of the believer.

 

[Pray_for_Change]

I haven’t seen that and and I have been extremely involved with Parish ministries,including a stint as director of RCIA,for over 40 years. Open ,practicing homosexuals ,don’t feel welcome in the Church because the Church will not accept their sinful behavior. Those with SSA who do not accede to their temptations have no problem with acceptance They are as welcome as the rest of us sinners.

I am celibate because that is how I’ve chosen to live my life, but I still don’t feel welcome in the Catholic Church which is why I left. I’ve been to many different parishes with largely the same experience. Sometimes it’s very subtle. Sometimes it’s overt, but the hostility is there. I know nobody wants to hear that and most people just brush it off as an attempt to badmouth the Church, but it’s not, certainly not on my part. It’s just my real experience. If it’s not directed at you, you probably wouldn’t notice it.

 

[Rau]

I am celibate because that is how I’ve chosen to live my life, but I still don’t feel welcome in the Catholic Church which is why I left. I’ve been to many different parishes with largely the same experience. Sometimes it’s very subtle. Sometimes it’s overt, but the hostility is there. I know nobody wants to hear that and most people just brush it off as an attempt to badmouth the Church, but it’s not, certainly not on my part. It’s just my real experience. If it’s not directed at you, you probably wouldn’t notice it.

What do the parishioners know about you?

Do they assume you have a sexual partner?

 

[clem456]

I am celibate because that is how I’ve chosen to live my life, but I still don’t feel welcome in the Catholic Church which is why I left. I’ve been to many different parishes with largely the same experience. Sometimes it’s very subtle. Sometimes it’s overt, but the hostility is there. I know nobody wants to hear that and most people just brush it off as an attempt to badmouth the Church, but it’s not, certainly not on my part. It’s just my real experience. If it’s not directed at you, you probably wouldn’t notice it.

Understandable.
When a thing is seen as dis-ordered, believers find it easy to use Church teaching to pass judgment on individuals when we’d be better off minding our own business. I’m not talking about speaking out on deceptive social movements and agendas which require attention, but the treatment of individuals in the Church.

I have a nephew who is gay and he believes in God. But despite being raised Catholic he cannot align himself with the Catholic Church because he does not feel welcome anywhere.

 

[Pray_for_Change]

What do the parishioners know about you?

Do they assume you have a sexual partner?

They know nothing about me really. Despite my attempts to change my mannerisms and voice, I still come across as slightly effeminate, so I seem to fit the stereotype and I know many people suspect I am gay. I don’t know what they assume about me, but the truth is it doesn’t matter whether they know I’m celibate or not. I don’t come off as masculine enough and that alone some people find disgusting. I don’t want to give the impression that it’s everyone. Some people have been very kind, but I’ve experienced enough of that sort of hostility that I just stay away.

 

[BrassAnkles]

They know nothing about me really. Despite my attempts to change my mannerisms and voice, I still come across as slightly effeminate, so I seem to fit the stereotype and I know many people suspect I am gay. I don’t know what they assume about me, but the truth is it doesn’t matter whether they know I’m celibate or not. I don’t come off as masculine enough and that alone some people find disgusting. I don’t want to give the impression that it’s everyone. Some people have been very kind, but I’ve experienced enough of that sort of hostility that I just stay away.

Throughout my life many persons have assumed I was homosexual. While I don’t believe I have effeminate manners I am certainly not macho in any way shape or form and that with my boyish appearance is probably what has caused people to have this perception.

Still, this is perception and not reality. Certainly this perception was a part of my crisis that I had from 13 years old until 25 when I gave my heart to Jesus and believed in what God had made, as opposed to what others “perceive” in me the result that I no longer questioned my sexuality was only a matter of time.

Nonetheless, this does not mean that people’s perception of me has changed, and I would say I was sensitive about this for many years, but not really anymore because my faith has grown.

 

[WilT]

In a lot of these threads I see there is a frequent theme that somehow the Catholic Church rejects homosexuals. This is not true of course, the Catholic Church rejects sin and will not allow it to be promoted.

Also, if an adulterer comes to Church bragging about his exploits and telling everyone how great it is to have sex outside of marriage would he be received well? Of course not.

 

[estesbob]

I am celibate because that is how I’ve chosen to live my life, but I still don’t feel welcome in the Catholic Church which is why I left. I’ve been to many different parishes with largely the same experience. Sometimes it’s very subtle. Sometimes it’s overt, but the hostility is there. I know nobody wants to hear that and most people just brush it off as an attempt to badmouth the Church, but it’s not, certainly not on my part. It’s just my real experience. If it’s not directed at you, you probably wouldn’t notice it.

I brush it off because I have never seen it in a Parish I have every attended.I go to Mass 6 days a week and frequent 6 different Parishes.Surely if this is going on I would notice sometime.Surely someone would say something to me. For the life of me I can’t figure
out how anyone would even know you are a homosexual. I think this is much more a matter of paranoia than it is unwelcoming parishioners

 

[Rau]

…For the life of me I can’t figure
out how anyone would even know you are a homosexual. I think this is much more a matter of paranoia than it is unwelcoming parishioners

If you role up each time with the same person each week. If you perhaps hold hands walking from your car. If you have effeminate mannerisms. Perhaps conclusions will be drawn?

The discomfort is not solely attributable to the parishioners. Here that gay couple are, openly gay, in a place where that is viewed as strongly suggestive of something gravely immoral. Should anything in the liturgy touch on the sin concerned, how could they not feel discomfort, no matter how well behaved the parishioners. And the parishioners may well feel their embarrassment!

It is very difficult to see how the Church can ever meet a welcoming “benchmark” for openly gay couples and retain its teaching. Fundamental concepts of right and wrong are in public conflict. The couple are likely refused communion. Tell me how such persons could ever feel at home in a Catholic Church? I’m not arguing their case, just pondering the issue.

 

[frobert]

It is very difficult to see how the Church can ever meet a welcoming “benchmark” for openly gay couples and retain its teaching. Fundamental concepts of right and wrong are in public conflict. The couple are likely refused communion. Tell me how such persons could ever feel at home in a Catholic Church? I’m not arguing their case, just pondering the issue.

I think you underrate the goodness in many parishes. We are not Catholic but we attend their services on occasion. I can;t say I feel home but I know I am in a house of God. We are also involved in the feeding mission. We have never felt unwanted and many people have gone out of their way to make us feel comfortable.One of the first sermons I heard was on how this church welcomes everyone and the pastor specifically mentions gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people. I don’t know if the same is true in other parishes but I tend to think it is at many of them.

 

[Rau]

I think you underrate the goodness in many parishes. We are not Catholic but we attend their services on occasion. I can;t say I feel home but I know I am in a house of God. We are also involved in the feeding mission. We have never felt unwanted and many people have gone out of their way to make us feel comfortable.One of the first sermons I heard was on how this church welcomes everyone and the pastor specifically mentions gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people. I don’t know if the same is true in other parishes but I tend to think it is at many of them.

That’s good to hear. But I stress again that the “unwelcome” feeling a gay couple might feel need not be the result of some behaviour of parishioners or minister, but may arise unavoidably from the fundamental conflict which is on display. I make no statement about the good will or otherwise of the parishioners or minister.

What is “birth Catholic” that your declare in your religion?

 

[Thorolfr]

I think you underrate the goodness in many parishes. We are not Catholic but we attend their services on occasion. I can;t say I feel home but I know I am in a house of God. We are also involved in the feeding mission. We have never felt unwanted and many people have gone out of their way to make us feel comfortable.One of the first sermons I heard was on how this church welcomes everyone and the pastor specifically mentions gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people. I don’t know if the same is true in other parishes but I tend to think it is at many of them.

That’s good to hear. I’ve only been to a Catholic church a few times in my life when I was young, but was assuming that I would probably feel unwelcome in most Catholic churches now mostly based on the unkind things many people here in CAF say about LGBT people.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

I see the problem here…

And I have a simple solution.

Pastors should clearly empathize what the Church teaches through the Catechism.
We all know what is said about respect and compassion because it has been stated hundreds of times on any thread concerning homosexuality on this forum.

Apparently many “non-internet” Catholics have not got the word and are not being nice to Catholic homosexuals or homosexuals who are looking for salvation.

The only way to solve this is through pastoral education.

On the other hand, gays should be aware that gay marriage is not, and will never be, accepted by the Catholic Church. Also, and more importantly, they are expected to live a life of chastity. IMHO…gays who accept this are stronger Christians than I ever could hope to be.

 

[kozlosap]

I see the problem here…

And I have a simple solution.

Pastors should clearly empathize what the Church teaches through the Catechism.
We all know what is said about respect and compassion because it has been stated hundreds of times on any thread concerning homosexuality on this forum.

Apparently many “non-internet” Catholics have not got the word and are not being nice to Catholic homosexuals or homosexuals who are looking for salvation.

The only way to solve this is through pastoral education.

On the other hand, gays should be aware that gay marriage is not, and will never be, accepted by the Catholic Church. Also, and more importantly, they are expected to live a life of chastity. IMHO…gays who accept this are stronger Christians than I ever could hope to be.

You can advocate for Pastoral Education until Elvis leaves the building, but the pastors that I’m acquainted with have been ministering to their flocks for many years and would probably laugh at the idea that need help in understanding what is acceptable and what isn’t. All Catholics and non-Catholics are welcome at their parishes, and no one asks who is straight or gay, nor do they appear to care, everyone works together to help “the least of us”. I would not be so quick to predict that the Church will never recognize CIVIL MARRIAGE.

 

[BrassAnkles]

That’s good to hear. I’ve only been to a Catholic church a few times in my life when I was young, but was assuming that I would probably feel unwelcome in most Catholic churches now mostly based on the unkind things many people here in CAF say about LGBT people.

Once again you are confusing hating the sin with the sinner.

I recommend you take the advice of a former lesbian who turned her life over to Christ:

*“The Church needs to lovingly say to this person: ‘This is not who you are. Acting on same-sex inclinations is never going to bring you to a place where you can have a right relationship with God. In fact, if you go this way, you are heading down a destructive path. The good news is we love you, we are going to be patient with you. If you fall a thousand times, we will still be there for you.’” *

virtueonline.org/former-lesbian-why-its-cruel-church-leaders-go-soft-same-sex-relationships

 

[on_the_hill]

That’s good to hear. I’ve only been to a Catholic church a few times in my life when I was young, but was assuming that I would probably feel unwelcome in most Catholic churches now mostly based on the unkind things many people here in CAF say about LGBT people.

Comments made on the CAF forums are generally a lot more “rigorous” than what the majority of Catholics would express in real life situations.

So don’t take perceived unkindness here to be representative of what most Catholics are really like.

 

[kozlosap]

Comments made on the CAF forums are generally a lot more “rigorous” than what the majority of Catholics would express in real life situations.

So don’t take perceived unkindness here to be representative of what most Catholics are really like.

EXACTLY!
Life at the Parish level is real, not rules and dogma driven relationships!