Evangelicals with gay children challenging church

[clem456]

Comments made on the CAF forums are generally a lot more “rigorous” than what the majority of Catholics would express in real life situations.

So don’t take perceived unkindness here to be representative of what most Catholics are really like.

But that’s the nature of discussion. Issues are brought up. People discuss them. It’s going to be more rigorous. People are looking for answers to questions, or are disagreeing with things. Discussing the Church’s teaching is going to rub people the wrong way occasionally.

Of course, in working parish life these things don’t come up unless there’s a reason. I avoid talking about sexual issues, or politics, or theological issues in general, in person where I live. I especially avoid it with family. Nothing good can come of it. My gay nephew is simply a valued and loved part of the family, end of discussion. I avoid it as well at RCIA, or scripture studies. Unless issues are brought up, there’s no point in discussing things that irritate people.
Still, at many parishes an openly gay person would have a difficult time finding a welcome. That’s a lack of charity on the part of individuals not a defect in Catholicism.

 

[WilT]

That’s good to hear. But I stress again that the “unwelcome” feeling a gay couple might feel need not be the result of some behaviour of parishioners or minister, but may arise unavoidably from the fundamental conflict which is on display. I make no statement about the good will or otherwise of the parishioners or minister…

Rau, in our Church, you cannot display SSA and affection because it sends a very wrong message within the parish. Any open display of immoral type behavior is and should be discouraged during and around mass time. If you feel “paranoid” as someone had added earlier. You probably should feel uncomfortable because same sex display and behaviors at the Church is scandalous to many.

 

[WilT]

Understandable.
When a thing is seen as dis-ordered, believers find it easy to use Church teaching to pass judgment on individuals when we’d be better off minding our own business. I’m not talking about speaking out on deceptive social movements and agendas which require attention, but the treatment of individuals in the Church.

I have a nephew who is gay and he believes in God. But despite being raised Catholic he cannot align himself with the Catholic Church because he does not feel welcome anywhere.

Gay behavior and open demonstration of 2 people of the same sex at a Catholic Church should bring him unease since the Church discourages the homosexual act and possibly even SSA affection. It’s not debatable. The Church believes in the love between MAN and Women and the union of them two when married. No amount of complaining should change this fundamental Christian reality.

 

[Rau]

Rau, in our Church, you cannot display SSA and affection because it sends a very wrong message within the parish. Any open display of immoral type behavior is and should be discouraged during and around mass time. If you feel “paranoid” as someone had added earlier. You probably should feel uncomfortable because same sex display and behaviors at the Church is scandalous to many.

You don’t seem to have been following the discussion? I am neither gay nor paranoid - perhaps you’ve confused me with another?

Nevertheless, you make the point I made- which is that it is inevitable that an openly gay couple will feel uncomfortable in a Catholic Church.

 

[clem456]

Gay behavior and open demonstration of 2 people of the same sex at a Catholic Church should bring him unease since the Church discourages the homosexual act and possibly even SSA affection. It’s not debatable. The Church believes in the love between MAN and Women and the union of them two when married. No amount of complaining should change this fundamental Christian reality.

That’s not really the point.

 

[WilT]

You don’t seem to have been following the discussion? I am neither gay nor paranoid - perhaps you’ve confused me with another?

Nevertheless, you make the point I made- which is that it is inevitable that an openly gay couple will feel uncomfortable in a Catholic Church.

I believe I was adding to your statement which is essentially in part an agreement.

 

[WilT]

That’s not really the point.

My bad, enlighten me if you will.

 

[WilT]

I am celibate because that is how I’ve chosen to live my life, but I still don’t feel welcome in the Catholic Church which is why I left. I’ve been to many different parishes with largely the same experience. Sometimes it’s very subtle. Sometimes it’s overt, but the hostility is there. I know nobody wants to hear that and most people just brush it off as an attempt to badmouth the Church, but it’s not, certainly not on my part. It’s just my real experience. If it’s not directed at you, you probably wouldn’t notice it.

I guess guys and gals I should have gotten to and commented more precisely to Pray_for_Change. My earlier response was for a posting such as this.

 

[NotAllHere]

what is Reparative Therapy?

 

[WilT]

what is Reparative Therapy?

read and follow link on #1 post.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Gay behavior and open demonstration of 2 people of the same sex at a Catholic Church should bring him unease since the Church discourages the homosexual act and possibly even SSA affection. It’s not debatable. The Church believes in the love between MAN and Women and the union of them two when married. No amount of complaining should change this fundamental Christian reality.

Is two men hugging in a normal way as opposed to the stupid, awkward looking “I’m totally not gay” hug really deserving of condemnation?

 

[ThinkingSapien]

what is Reparative Therapy?

More or less it’s a form of conversion therapy; trying to reshape a person’s sexuality. This has taken different forms over the decades in both religious and secular applications and has failed tremendously. Such therapy is more likely to cause depression than produce a mentally healthy person with altered sexuality.

 

[estesbob]

Is two men hugging in a normal way as opposed to the stupid, awkward looking “I’m totally not gay” hug really deserving of condemnation?

I wouldn’t know the difference. In fact I would suggest of 99.9% of people don’t know the difference. But then the overwhelming majority of people don’t give homosexuality a second thought in dealing with other people and/or when worshiping at church

 

[WilT]

Is two men hugging in a normal way as opposed to the stupid, awkward looking “I’m totally not gay” hug really deserving of condemnation?

God can only condemn. Your choice of words sound harsh and inaccurately put.

 

[BrassAnkles]

More or less it’s a form of conversion therapy; trying to reshape a person’s sexuality. This has taken different forms over the decades in both religious and secular applications and has failed tremendously. Such therapy is more likely to cause depression than produce a mentally healthy person with altered sexuality.

Actually the Holy Spirit has been healing homosexuals for millenia, it’s in the Bible.

Studies have already shown that there are more ex gays than gays.

Finally, the gay lobby always states that conversion therapy harms people because of one person’s opinion, the ex president of Narth, with no scientific data to back this up.

 

[WilT]

Actually the Holy Spirit has been healing homosexuals for millenia, it’s in the Bible.

Studies have already shown that there are more ex gays than gays.

Finally, the gay lobby always states that conversion therapy harms people because of one person’s opinion, the ex president of Narth, with no scientific data to back this up.

Very possible. A lot of deception and lies going around in order to pull men and women from knowing true Love.

 

[BrassAnkles]

Very possible. A lot of deception and lies going around in order to pull men and women from knowing true Love.

The Bible clearly establishes that people have been healed from homosexual desires since the time of Jesus.

I Corin. 6 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. That is what some of you used to be; but now you have had yourselves washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Some will claim that the homosexual desires were not healed but only that the persons became celibate. However, given that it is not God’s will for persons to have homosexual desires because they are disordered there is no reason to assume the persons would not have been healed of said. We can have complete faith that homosexuality was not ordained by God not only by reading His Word but also trust what science tells us; specifically that homosexuality is not biological and in fact changes for the majority of persons.

mygenes.co.nz/summary.htm

Peace

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

I wouldn’t know the difference. In fact I would suggest of 99.9% of people don’t know the difference. But then the overwhelming majority of people don’t give homosexuality a second thought in dealing with other people and/or when worshiping at church

The stupid hug I’m talking about is the one where they put a single arm over another and pat each other on the back as opposed to the normal both arms around each other.

God can only condemn. Your choice of words sound harsh and inaccurately put.

God is capable of other things in addition to condemnation like love.

Even things like a hug or holding hands are treated by some as those people "flaunting homosexuality.

 

[WilT]

The stupid hug I’m talking about is the one where they put a single arm over another and pat each other on the back as opposed to the normal both arms around each other.

God is capable of other things in addition to condemnation like love.

Even things like a hug or holding hands are treated by some as those people "flaunting homosexuality.

Joie de Vivre, your confusing or attempting to make an issue about nothing. A straight man hugs another man he doesn’t have loving feelings towards him. Just a straight forward I know you are there hug. You may be thinking more in line of the hug with loving feelings attached to it. There is quite a difference between the 2.:hug3:

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Joie de Vivre, your confusing or attempting to make an issue about nothing. A straight man hugs another man he doesn’t have loving feelings towards him. Just a straight forward I know you are there hug. You may be thinking more in line of the hug with loving feelings attached to it. There is quite a difference between the 2.:hug3:

The whole point of a hug is to display loving feelings of various kinds.