Evangelism to Muslims

[murtad]

Hello!

As members of the Catholic Church, we should try to be more active in evangelism. The reason for this is because both the Bible and the Holy Tradition of the Church command Christians be active in evangelism.

Our Lord Jesus taught us how to conquer the Roman Empire via the spiritual sword in about 400 years and the early Christian missionaries actively seeked to convert non-Christians. Around the 4th century C.E., Emperor Constantine embraced the Christian faith as a result of successful evangelism of the grassroots in the Empire.

Sad to say, divisions within the Church led to conquest of the Roman Empire by Islamic armies and subsequent Arabisation of the entire Middle East.

I urge members of the Catholic Church to read this part of the Cathecism of the Catholic Church:

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."

We have many Eastern Rite Catholic Churches that complement the Roman Rite. They are Coptic Rite, Syriac Rite, Greek Rite, Russian Rite and Armenian Rite. We lack however Jewish Rite and Muslim Rite.

CCC teaches us that Christian God is Trinity. If so, CCC 841 statement that Christians and Muslims worship one, merciful God can only mean that a true Muslim is a person who believes in Trinity by confessing Nicene Creed.

Note that the Arabic word “Muslim” means submitter to God. What God is subjective and can even mean Trinity.

Please tell your local Bishops to organise an Eastern Rite Catholic Church specifically targetting Jews and Muslims. This could be a Jewish Rite or a Muslim Rite.

We must encourage Muslims to be good Muslims by rejecting Muhammad, a false prophet and accepting our Lord and God Jesus who is the Messiah, the seal of the prophets. The best way is to convince them to be Trinitarian Muslims, i.e. Muslims who confess Trinity, Nicene Creed, etc. They are Muslims ethnically, yet Christians religiously. This is not much different from Jewish Christians, who are Jewish ethnically yet Christians religiously. The Apostle Paul himself was proud to be Jewish and refered himself as Hebrew of the Hebrews.

What is your reaction to my idea? Do you agree with it?

 

[pro_universal]

If so, CCC 841 statement that Christians and Muslims worship one, merciful God can only mean that a true Muslim is a person who believes in Trinity by confessing Nicene Creed.

This text comes directly from Lumen Gentium.

Your idea is totally opposed to the purpose of that language in LG and in the Catechism. It’s like saying “We support all those who seek the truth” but then turning around and saying “by those who seek the truth, we mean only people who join our Church.”

That kind of underhandedness will win you no converts.
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.(20*)

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Salaam murtad;

Why the offensive name? Tell us your story.

Joseph.

 

[murtad]

Joseph_Alison:

Salaam murtad;

Why the offensive name? Tell us your story.

Joseph.

Is it offensive to you, if I am a former Muslim who embraced the Christian faith by membership in the Catholic Church? If yes, you may be aware that in Islamic law, the maximum penalty for leaving Islam is death by beheading and I wish to make every Christian aware that Islam is a religious advocating murder, when Christian faith forbids killing any life except as a last resort (usually during war time to save lives, for example the current anti-terrorism war being waged by the USA and its allies against Islamists).

 

[pro_universal]

murtad,

Why don’t you tell us your story of conversion. I’d be interested to hear where you’re from, how you came to the Church, and what makes you so anti-Muslim now.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Salaam murtad;

murtad:

Is it offensive to you, if I am a former Muslim who embraced the Christian faith by membership in the Catholic Church?

No the least. I meant to say “on the attack” and I did mean “offending”. Be whatever you want. Enjoy yourself.

Joseph.

 

[BryPGuy89]

murtad:

Hello!

As members of the Catholic Church, we should try to be more active in evangelism. The reason for this is because both the Bible and the Holy Tradition of the Church command Christians be active in evangelism.

Our Lord Jesus taught us how to conquer the Roman Empire via the spiritual sword in about 400 years and the early Christian missionaries actively seeked to convert non-Christians. Around the 4th century C.E., Emperor Constantine embraced the Christian faith as a result of successful evangelism of the grassroots in the Empire.

Sad to say, divisions within the Church led to conquest of the Roman Empire by Islamic armies and subsequent Arabisation of the entire Middle East.

I urge members of the Catholic Church to read this part of the Cathecism of the Catholic Church:

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."

We have many Eastern Rite Catholic Churches that complement the Roman Rite. They are Coptic Rite, Syriac Rite, Greek Rite, Russian Rite and Armenian Rite. We lack however Jewish Rite and Muslim Rite.

CCC teaches us that Christian God is Trinity. If so, CCC 841 statement that Christians and Muslims worship one, merciful God can only mean that a true Muslim is a person who believes in Trinity by confessing Nicene Creed.

Note that the Arabic word “Muslim” means submitter to God. What God is subjective and can even mean Trinity.

Please tell your local Bishops to organise an Eastern Rite Catholic Church specifically targetting Jews and Muslims. This could be a Jewish Rite or a Muslim Rite.

We must encourage Muslims to be good Muslims by rejecting Muhammad, a false prophet and accepting our Lord and God Jesus who is the Messiah, the seal of the prophets. The best way is to convince them to be Trinitarian Muslims, i.e. Muslims who confess Trinity, Nicene Creed, etc. They are Muslims ethnically, yet Christians religiously. This is not much different from Jewish Christians, who are Jewish ethnically yet Christians religiously. The Apostle Paul himself was proud to be Jewish and refered himself as Hebrew of the Hebrews.

What is your reaction to my idea? Do you agree with it?

It is just like asking a Catholic/Christian to give up Jesus. I would like for their to be better relations on both sides, but to outspokenly denounce anothers faith structure is only asking for more confrontation and less dialogue. I think friendly religious dialogue both ways is the only way to share the truth.

 

[Myangel]

murtad:

Is it offensive to you, if I am a former Muslim who embraced the Christian faith by membership in the Catholic Church? If yes, you may be aware that in Islamic law, the maximum penalty for leaving Islam is death by beheading and I wish to make every Christian aware that Islam is a religious advocating murder, when Christian faith forbids killing any life except as a last resort (usually during war time to save lives, for example the current anti-terrorism war being waged by the USA and its allies against Islamists).

Welcome home!

 

[LatinCat]

BryPGuy89:

It is just like asking a Catholic/Christian to give up Jesus. I would like for their to be better relations on both sides, but to outspokenly denounce anothers faith structure is only asking for more confrontation and less dialogue. I think friendly religious dialogue both ways is the only way to share the truth.

And this attitude puts you outside the Church. Christ our Lord said, “Go, make disciples of ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” You see it was Christ himself who commanded us to bring all people to the true faith, and that means evangelizing them, not just dialogue. Evangelizations requires that we speak the thruth that Jesus is “the way, the TRUTH, and the life. No one goes to the Father but by [him]”. Meaning God is only approachable through Jesus Christ, and since the Catholic Church is his own body, then that means that we approach God through his Church, which is the universal ark of salvation. In fact, it is the teaching of the Church that there is no salvation outsided the Chruch (extra ecclesiam nulla solus) except in the case of invincible ignorance.

 

[pro_universal]

In fact, it is the teaching of the Church that there is no salvation outsided the Chruch (extra ecclesiam nulla solus) except in the case of invincible ignorance.

LatinCat, I’d be interested to hear your interpretation of Lumen Gentium. I linked it above and quoted some portions I find relevant to this question. Would you say you accept the teaching of LG, or if you reject it, what are your reasons?

Thanks.

 

[LatinCat]

pro_universal:

This text comes directly from Lumen Gentium.

Your idea is totally opposed to the purpose of that language in LG and in the Catechism. It’s like saying “We support all those who seek the truth” but then turning around and saying “by those who seek the truth, we mean only people who join our Church.”

That kind of underhandedness will win you no converts.
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

I think that you are misunderstanding the teachings of lumen gentium if you do not think that it is still necessary for all to convert to the Catholic Church. We must read lumen gentium in light of previous Church teaching, for the Catholic Church never teaches anything novel. Remember, one of the de fide teachings of the Catholic Church is that except in the case of invincible ingnorance, there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Let us analyze Lumen Gentium, which btw is not de fide, in light of the Church’s teaching “extra ecclesiam nulla solus”.
Quote: “But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator.”
This just points out an obvious truth about God. He wants everyone to be saved and thus all are included in his plan, especially those who share a knowledge of the truth of God’s existence.
Quote: " In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind."
Great. Muslims are more closely linked to God’s plan of salvation because their faith finds a foundation in the faith of Abraham. This makes sense because God’s plan of salvation was intimately linked to his promise to Abramham. Note, this does not yet illustrate that muslims are saved, but only that they are included in God’s PLAN of salvation because they claim Abraham as father, of whose seed the saviour who come forth.
“Quote: Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.”
Well of course. God is not distant from any living man for he holds us all in being and created each one of us, i.e. he gives us life. But that does not mean all have access to the Father. It just means he is near all of us because he made us and loves us. Furthermore, this states that God wants everyone to be saved. That does not mean everyone will be saved or that it is not necessary to join the Catholic Church to be saved. God wills that all become members of the Church which is his body so that all can be saved.
Quote128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life."
Ok. sounds like invincible ignorance to me. You see, this passage only provides an exception for those who do not know the gospel and the reason that they don’t know it is without fault of their own. You see, it is still true that those who do know the gospel must submit to it and become members of Christ’s
Church.
Quote: “Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.(20*)”
Sounds like lumen gentium is a pretty conservative document. This last statement points out that any truth found amongst those outside the Church is PREPERATION for the GOSPEL. That is, it is meant to point one to Christ and His Church. The underlying assumption is that God wills all to be members of his Church. I think that is a good conclusion to draw from this document and the teachings of the Church.
God wills all men to be saved.
There is no salvation outside the Church
Therefore, God wills that all join the Church.
Christ commanded that we evangelized the world.
Christians are those who worship Christ and obey his commandments.
Therefore, Christians must evangelize the world.

 

[pro_universal]

This last statement points out that any truth found amongst those outside the Church is PREPERATION for the GOSPEL. That is, it is meant to point one to Christ and His Church.

Okay, so look at it this way: If the teachings of Islam are preparation for the Gospel, what are we doing to the foundations on which gospel learning can be built if we degrade Islam?

Seems to me that attacking the religious beliefs of Muslims would indeed be, according to this reasoning, destroying what preparations there were for the Gospel.

God wills all men to be saved.
There is no salvation outside the Church
Therefore, God wills that all join the Church.
Christ commanded that we evangelized the world.
Christians are those who worship Christ and obey his commandments.
Therefore, Christians must evangelize the world.

If that’s the whole thrust of Lumen Gentium, then respectfully, it was a waste of paper, because it’s a repeat of what people were already saying.

I think the import is in looking at how evangelization is to occur. That is, by participation and acceptance of different relationships between the peoples of Abraham and God.

Would you not agree that at a minimum, LG calls on us to respect Muslims as “first among” the truth seekers, and to view them as people who work inherently for the same goal that we do?

I don’t see how calling islam a religion of death, etc etc, jives with this teaching.

 

[LatinCat]

pro_universal:

Okay, so look at it this way: If the teachings of Islam are preparation for the Gospel, what are we doing to the foundations on which gospel learning can be built if we degrade Islam?

Seems to me that attacking the religious beliefs of Muslims would indeed be, according to this reasoning, destroying what preparations there were for the Gospel.

Notice that LG does not say all the religious beliefs of Muslims are prepartion for the Gospel. It resricts the descriptive phrase “preparation for the gospel” to “whatever good or truth” is found in non-Catholic religions. This is very specific. It ony includes the things found in those religions that are good and true. The muslim religion teaches the following good and true things:

1. There is only one God
2. God is creator
3. God is holy
4. God is merciful
5. God deals with human beings
6. There is an afterlife
7. Jesus was sent by God
8. Mary is worthy of honor
9. They have many moral beliefs that are good and true as well.
   These things can be viewed as preperation for the gospel. However, the muslim religion is also filled with many teachings that are not true, which most people call lies. The following are lies found in the muslim religion:
10. God is not trinity
11. Jesus Christ is not God
12. Jesus is not the begotten Son of the Father
13. Jesus did not die on the cross for our sins and was not raised
    from the dead.
14. The Holy Spirit is not a person who is God.
15. Christians are idol worhipers
    etc. ad infinutum.
    Now these lies do not come from God because God is truth. The bible says that satan is the Father of lies. Therefore, these lies of the muslim religion must come form the devil.
    Thus, we can degrade that in the muslim religion which is false because such is evil and tears souls away from God’s mercy. At the same time, we can call the truth found in the muslim religion “preperation for the gospel”

pro_universal:

If that’s the whole thrust of Lumen Gentium, then respectfully, it was a waste of paper, because it’s a repeat of what people were already saying.

I am sorry that you feel that way about the teachings of the Church because to reject the teachings of the Church is to reject the teachings of Christ: “He who hears you, hears me”. It is sad that you believe that Christ’s teachings are not worth the paper that the Church puts them on. And yes, the Church often does repeat herself because she never changes her teachings. She is always faithful to the words of her Lord and Bridegroom.

pro_universal:

I think the import is in looking at how evangelization is to occur. That is, by participation and acceptance of different relationships between the peoples of Abraham and God.

Ahh. But you must remeber that their relationship with God is not salvific. The muslim religion cannot save a person. As Christ said, “I am the Way, the Truth, and, the Life, no on comes to the Father except through me.” The only relationship with God that can save a person is a relationship with him through Christ on his terms, i.e. through the Catholic Church.

pro_universal:

Would you not agree that at a minimum, LG calls on us to respect Muslims as “first among” the truth seekers, and to view them as people who work inherently for the same goal that we do?

No. I would say that they are the first outside of Christianity, along with the Jews, to be included in God’s plan of salvation because of their relationship with Abraham. But, no they are not the first of the Truth seekers. I think outside of Christianity (and before Chist outside of Judaism), the first among the truth seekers would be the great theistic philosophers: Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle. For they truely were seeking the truth to the best of their ability. Muslims, on the other hand are handicapped by their religion. In a sense, it prevents them from seeking the the truth of Jesus Christ. This is sad becasue their religion possess many things that could be used as preparation for the Gospel.

pro_universal:

I don’t see how calling islam a religion of death, etc etc, jives with this teaching.

Well, let’s see. It denies the ressurrection of the author of life. That’s a death position. It teaches that, although unnecessary, killing Jews and Christians is a virtuous thing. Another death position. Their founder spread the “religion of peace” by the sword. Death, death, death. HMMMMM. I wonder where anyone got the idea that the Islamic faith is a religion of death.

 

[pro_universal]

1. God is not trinity
2. Jesus Christ is not God
3. Jesus is not the begotten Son of the Father
4. Jesus did not die on the cross for our sins and was not raised
   from the dead.
5. The Holy Spirit is not a person who is God.
6. Christians are idol worhipers
   etc. ad infinutum.
   Now these lies do not come from God because God is truth. The bible says that satan is the Father of lies. Therefore, these lies of the muslim religion must come form the devil.
   Thus, we can degrade that in the muslim religion which is false because such is evil and tears souls away from God’s mercy. At the same time, we can call the truth found in the muslim religion “preperation for the gospel”

This seems like a “trick” to get around the main point of LG, which is to focus on the good in building our relationships. If we can go on calling Islam “of the devil”, then what’s the purpose of LG’s highlighting the good and pointing out that the Muslims seek salvation and worship the same God we do?

Also, I’d think carefully about how the list you put forth applies to Jews. Does anyone here advocate putting out leaflets accusing the Jews of promulgating the words of Satan? What would allow you to accuse muslims of teaching satanic belief, that wouldn’t also require you to condemn judaism as satanic?

It is sad that you believe that Christ’s teachings are not worth the paper that the Church puts them on.

That’s not my position. What I’m arguing is that if you read LG, it is clearly a command to love and understand, and to focus on the positives in building community between Muslims, Jews, and Christians. I would say it’s an injunction not to do anything that divides us, which calling muslims satanic would definitely be.

I think outside of Christianity (and before Chist outside of Judaism), the first among the truth seekers would be the great theistic philosophers: Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle. For they truely were seeking the truth to the best of their ability. Muslims, on the other hand are handicapped by their religion.

Given that muslims also encountered and wrote on the ideas of Aristotle (much of the material for Aquinas came from Ibn Rushd), it’s hard for me to imagine what you would base this conclusion upon. The ancients were good philosophers, but their moral philosophies were seriously lacking compared to Jesus and the muslims. You have to remember that these are the people who were adored by the Romans…not exactly a picture perfect example of christian civility and moral thought there. The methods were good, and helped us understand our own beliefs, but the moral substance simply was not there before christians got ahold of the material.

The only relationship with God that can save a person is a relationship with him through Christ on his terms, i.e. through the Catholic Church.

LG clearly indicates that this happens on God’s terms, and not necessarily in this life.

It denies the ressurrection of the author of life. That’s a death position. It teaches that, although unnecessary, killing Jews and Christians is a virtuous thing. Another death position. Their founder spread the “religion of peace” by the sword. Death, death, death.

This is exactly the kind of bias and discrimination that LG warns against in my opinion. First of all, no, muslims are not taught that killing jews and christians is good. I don’t think you can find a single muslim teacher who says that.

Second: Jews teach that about Jesus too. Are you going to start condemning Judaism as the teacher of a “death position”?
As for spreading religion by the sword, we Christians have precious little to say, considering that our religion was spread to its largest populations almost entirely by the sword. (That is not even remotely a controversial point…doesn’t make the teaching of the church evil, but there’s no way to argue about how it spread.)

 

[cestusdei]

I believe we should witness to Muslims that Jesus is truly the Son of God. We do them no favors by leaving them in the darkness of ignorance that Muhammed mired them in. We should love them enough to tell them the truth.

 

[JimG]

Yes, I don’t think that anything in Lumen Gentium was intended to set aside the command to evangelize the world on behalf of Christ.

 

[pro_universal]

Yes, I don’t think that anything in Lumen Gentium was intended to set aside the command to evangelize the world on behalf of Christ.

The central issue is, how do we evangelize?

Does it really spread the message of Christ to go around calling people satanic? Or to say they worship death, when they clearly do not believe that themselves?

If LG stands for anything, it stands for the principle that inclusion, focusing on common ground, and mutual understanding are the best ways to make Christ present in the world.

Attacking the muslim faith does nothing but make Christians feel better about attacking muslims. If you want to show people the honor and truth of Christianity, the only way to do it is by example and friendship. Talking down to them about their beliefs is not the way, and I think LG is especially sensitive to that. We should focus on how they are just like us, and how we can work together to do what Christ really cared about: secure peace, friendship, and better lives for everyone, regardless of whether or not they say with their voices “Jesus is God.”

 

[LatinCat]

pro_universal:

This seems like a “trick” to get around the main point of LG, which is to focus on the good in building our relationships. If we can go on calling Islam “of the devil”, then what’s the purpose of LG’s highlighting the good and pointing out that the Muslims seek salvation and worship the same God we do?

Also, I’d think carefully about how the list you put forth applies to Jews. Does anyone here advocate putting out leaflets accusing the Jews of promulgating the words of Satan? What would allow you to accuse muslims of teaching satanic belief, that wouldn’t also require you to condemn judaism as satanic?

That’s not my position. What I’m arguing is that if you read LG, it is clearly a command to love and understand, and to focus on the positives in building community between Muslims, Jews, and Christians. I would say it’s an injunction not to do anything that divides us, which calling muslims satanic would definitely be.

Given that muslims also encountered and wrote on the ideas of Aristotle (much of the material for Aquinas came from Ibn Rushd), it’s hard for me to imagine what you would base this conclusion upon. The ancients were good philosophers, but their moral philosophies were seriously lacking compared to Jesus and the muslims. You have to remember that these are the people who were adored by the Romans…not exactly a picture perfect example of christian civility and moral thought there. The methods were good, and helped us understand our own beliefs, but the moral substance simply was not there before christians got ahold of the material.

LG clearly indicates that this happens on God’s terms, and not necessarily in this life.

This is exactly the kind of bias and discrimination that LG warns against in my opinion. First of all, no, muslims are not taught that killing jews and christians is good. I don’t think you can find a single muslim teacher who says that.

Second: Jews teach that about Jesus too. Are you going to start condemning Judaism as the teacher of a “death position”?
As for spreading religion by the sword, we Christians have precious little to say, considering that our religion was spread to its largest populations almost entirely by the sword. (That is not even remotely a controversial point…doesn’t make the teaching of the church evil, but there’s no way to argue about how it spread.)

Do you believe that the Catholic Church possess the fullness of divine revelation?
Do you believe that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus?
Do you believe that the Catholic Church teaches infallibly when it makes a de fide declaration?
Do you believe Christ’s words: “Go, make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” ?
Do you believe that satan is the father of lies?
Do you believe that the muslim religion teaches things that are lies?
Do you believe the Church when she teaches “extra ecclesiam nulla solus” (outside of the Church there is no salvation except in the case of invincible ignorance)?
Do you believe that Lumen Gentium rejects past Catholic teaching or should be interperated in light of past teachings? i.e. do you believe that the Catholic Church does not change its de fide statements?

 

[murtad]

cestusdei:

I believe we should witness to Muslims that Jesus is truly the Son of God. We do them no favors by leaving them in the darkness of ignorance that Muhammed mired them in. We should love them enough to tell them the truth.

I am happy both of us as members of the Catholic Church agree that we should engage in active evangelism of Muslims and get Muslims to confess the Nicene Creed, the basis of Trinity and confess Ever-Virgin Mary is Theotokos.

The question is how do we begin evangelism of Muslims? We will need to follow the methods given in the Bible and Cathecism of the Catholic Church.

In the Bible, 1 Corinthians 9 verse 20, God says:
To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law – though not being myself under the law – that I might win those under the law.

I understand this verse in light of CCC 841 to mean that the Apostle Paul (may the Lord bless him) approached the Jews as a Jew preaching in Hebrew, and to the Greeks, Coptics and Syriacs he preached in ways appropriate to their cultures. For the Gospel is both for the Jew and for the Gentile.

In the Cathecism of the Catholic Church, we read:
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."

In light of 1 Corinthians 9 verse 20 of Bible, we must understand that Muslims like Jews are a culture. There are good Muslims, like His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI (may the Lord bless him) and bad Muslims like the false prophet Muhammad (may the Lord curse him).

A good Muslim does everything the Cathecism of the Catholic Church calls him to do. He confesses the Nicene Creed first and foremost, opposes death penalty except as a last resort (such as when required in war time like this post 9/11 times.

A bad Muslim, on the other hand is like the false prophet Muhammad (may the Lord curse him), Osama bin Ladin, Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin (may the Lord curse them all). They deny everything the Cathecism of the Catholic Church calls him to do. Thus bad Muslims are a death cult and we can see this in the post 9/11 times as the U.S.-led anti-terrorism coalition declared war against this death cult.

Christian Catholics must be sensitive to culture of Muslims when we perform evangelism. We can do so by emulating the Eastern Rite Catholic Churches in communion with the Western Rite Church headquarted in Rome. Some examples of these Churches are such as:

1. Russian Catholic Church in Russian Federation
2. Greek Catholic Church in Greece and Turkey
3. Coptic Catholic Church in Egypt
4. Syriac Catholic Church in Syria, Lebanon and Iraq

All these Churches allow many Eastern customs such as but not limited to married priests.

I suggest Christian Catholics propose to your local Bishops and also if possible write a petition to His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI telling them to establish a Muslim Rite Church that is in communion with Rome like our sister Coptic Catholic Church, which has its own Patriarch.

The features of the Muslim Rite shall be :

1. 
   *]They shall be called Muslim Rite Catholic Church
   
   • 
     *]Their Shahada (statement of faith) shall be the Nicene Creed
     
     • 
       *]They shall confess Ever-Virgin Mary is Theotokos
       
       • 
         *]They shall perform liturgy (worship) 5 times a day
         
         • 
           *]Add your proposed features here
           
           Is this dishonesty? Hardly since the word “Muslim” means “a person who submits to God”. A Muslim can be a person who submits to the Christian God, Trinity, or to the Islamist God, Allah, the Arabian God, or a Jehovah’s Witness who worships the English God, Jehovah. Except for Trinitarian Muslims, which is the true Muslim faith, every other Muslim is a false Muslim.
           
           So, let us carry out our duties as Christian Catholics by making disciples of all nations.
           
           Please do not be afraid to tell me your reaction, whether positive or negative. If you read my comments with an open mind believing in the Bible and Cathecism of Catholic Church, I am sure you will grasp exactly what I am trying to say.
           
           The above I write in the name of my Lord Jesus and my Lady Ever-Virgin Mary the Theotokos.

 

[Justice2006]

LatinCat:

And this attitude puts you outside the Church. Christ our Lord said, “Go, make disciples of ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” You see it was Christ himself who commanded us to bring all people to the true faith, and that means evangelizing them, not just dialogue. .

Ms. LatinCat,

I am afraid that, that saying of your “Lord” [if he indeed said that] is not valid anymore after the advent of Last and Final Prophet of God who is the Spirit of Truth. Because your “Lord” had many things to say to you (his followers) but you were not able/fit to receive all that he had to say. So he left that job to an another Spirit of Truth like him, to convey the whole truth. So when he came and gave us the last version of God’s whole Truth meant for the whole mankind, your “Lord’s” advice is not anymore valid.

But if you insist on your dogmas and keep busy in “prophecying” in your “Lord’s” name and “casting devils” in his name and even doing some “miracles” then…on his second coming:

Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. [Matthew 7:22-23]

Your “Lord” is not going to say “I never knew you: depart from me…” to the Muslims or to the Jews or…but to those who used to call him “Lord, Lord” and then prophesied in his name, and cast out devils in his name, and had “done many miracles” in his name, instead of following the Laws and Commandents of God.

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