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Faith1960
Guest
Are we, as Catholics, required to believe that Eve was literally created by God taking a rib from Adam while he was asleep or is that just a story?
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jpjd
Guest
No.
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coolduude
Guest
I believe you may be wrong.
Number 3 seems to contradict your answer.
Here’s the source: agapebiblestudy.com/documents/What%20Catholics%20believe%20about%20Creation.htm
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jpjd
Guest
That “source” that you link to is from who? Just some person paraphrasing the Pope’s words to suit his personal views.
Let’s look at what the actual document, Humanae Generis, says. From Wiki en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humani_generis:
"Evolution
The encyclical took up a nuanced position with regard to evolution. It distinguished between the soul, held as created divinely, and the physical body, whose development may be subject to empirical and prudent study:
…the Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God. However this must be done in such a way that the reasons for both opinions, that is, those favorable and those unfavorable to evolution, be weighed and judged with the necessary seriousness, moderation and measure, and provided that all are prepared to submit to the judgment of the Church, to whom Christ has given the mission of interpreting authentically the Sacred Scriptures and of defending the dogmas of faithful. Some however rashly transgress this liberty of discussion, when they act as if the origin of the human body from pre-existing and living matter were already completely certain and proved by the facts which have been discovered up to now and by reasoning on those facts, and as if there were nothing in the sources of divine revelation which demands the greatest moderation and caution in this question.
The encyclical does not endorse a comprehensive belief in evolution, nor its outright rejection, because it deemed the evidence at the time not convincing. It allows for the possibility in the future:
This certainly would be praiseworthy in the case of clearly proved facts; but caution must be used when there is rather question of hypotheses, having some sort of scientific foundation, in which the doctrine contained in Sacred Scripture or in Tradition is involved.
The position delinking the creation of body and soul has been more recently confirmed by Pope John Paul II, who highlighted additional facts supporting the theory of evolution half a century later."
Let’s look at what the actual document, Humanae Generis, says. From Wiki en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humani_generis:
"Evolution
The encyclical took up a nuanced position with regard to evolution. It distinguished between the soul, held as created divinely, and the physical body, whose development may be subject to empirical and prudent study:
…the Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God. However this must be done in such a way that the reasons for both opinions, that is, those favorable and those unfavorable to evolution, be weighed and judged with the necessary seriousness, moderation and measure, and provided that all are prepared to submit to the judgment of the Church, to whom Christ has given the mission of interpreting authentically the Sacred Scriptures and of defending the dogmas of faithful. Some however rashly transgress this liberty of discussion, when they act as if the origin of the human body from pre-existing and living matter were already completely certain and proved by the facts which have been discovered up to now and by reasoning on those facts, and as if there were nothing in the sources of divine revelation which demands the greatest moderation and caution in this question.
The encyclical does not endorse a comprehensive belief in evolution, nor its outright rejection, because it deemed the evidence at the time not convincing. It allows for the possibility in the future:
This certainly would be praiseworthy in the case of clearly proved facts; but caution must be used when there is rather question of hypotheses, having some sort of scientific foundation, in which the doctrine contained in Sacred Scripture or in Tradition is involved.
The position delinking the creation of body and soul has been more recently confirmed by Pope John Paul II, who highlighted additional facts supporting the theory of evolution half a century later."
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ChadS
Guest
Yet you quote wikipedia and give undue credence to that article.
Let’s see what Humani Generis actually says about Adam:
So the encyclical says nothing about the rib or that part of the creation story it does say that it is incumbent upon Catholics to believe in a original set of humans - who we call Adam and Eve, and not a small population of humans or that there were others also around.
ChadS
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Third_Day
Guest
While there has been no “infallible” decree it is cetainly a teaching of the Church that Eve was created immediately from Adam
On Christian Marriage Pope Leo XIII
5……We record what is to all known, and cannot be doubted by any, that God, on the sixth day of creation, having made man from the slime of the earth, and having breathed into his face the breath of life, gave him a companion, whom He miraculously took from the side of Adam when he was locked in sleep. God thus, in His most far-reaching foresight, decreed that this husband and wife should be the natural beginning of the human race, from whom it might be propagated and preserved by an unfailing fruitfulness throughout all futurity of time
Catechism 371
God created man and woman together……The woman God “fashions “from the man’s rib
On Christian Marriage Pope Leo XIII
5……We record what is to all known, and cannot be doubted by any, that God, on the sixth day of creation, having made man from the slime of the earth, and having breathed into his face the breath of life, gave him a companion, whom He miraculously took from the side of Adam when he was locked in sleep. God thus, in His most far-reaching foresight, decreed that this husband and wife should be the natural beginning of the human race, from whom it might be propagated and preserved by an unfailing fruitfulness throughout all futurity of time
Catechism 371
God created man and woman together……The woman God “fashions “from the man’s rib
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jpjd
Guest
I give credence to that article because it quotes directly from the encyclical. Catholic teaching, as clearly stated in the encyclical, does not require us to believe in creation nor in evolution.
I completely agree. We must believe that humans came from an original set of parents. But that wasn’t the OP’s question. The OP’s question is asking, in so many words, are we required to believe that our original parents resulted from creation. And the answer is no.
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buffalo
Guest
Interesting enough, one of the most fertile places for stem cells is the rib.
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jpjd
Guest
Here is #371 in its entirety:
"Each for the other" - "A unity in two"
371 God created man and woman together and willed each for the other. The Word of God gives us to understand this through various features of the sacred text. "It is not good that the man should be alone. I will make him a helper fit for him."242 None of the animals can be man’s partner.243 The woman God “fashions” from the man’s rib and brings to him elicits on the man’s part a cry of wonder, an exclamation of love and communion: "This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh."244 Man discovers woman as another “I”, sharing the same humanity.
242 Gen 2:18.
243 Gen 2:19-20.
244 Gen 2:23.
Note that this section is quoting from Genesis. It is not making a statement on creation vs evolution; it is saying that man and woman share the same humanity.
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edwest2
Guest
This what Catholics should believe. God, being God, can do this. Just as Jesus raised the dead or gave sight to the blind and calmed the wind and storm with His words.
Peace,
Ed
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Faith1960
Guest
Let me be clear, I’m not trying to start up a thread on evolution or creationism since it’s banned in this forum. I just want to know, specifically, if we’re required to believe in
Eve being crerated from Adams rib. Because I don’t.
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buffalo
Guest
**DID WOMAN EVOLVE FROM THE BEASTS?
A DEFENCE OF TRADITIONAL CATHOLIC DOCTRINE - PART I **
The purpose of this essay is to defend a doctrinal thesis which is quite simple, very clear, very classical, but now very unpopular — not to say outrightly scorned and derided. I will argue that the formation by God of the first woman, Eve, from the side of the sleeping, adult Adam had, by the year 1880, been proposed infallibly by the universal and ordinary magisterium of the Catholic Church as literally and historically true; so that this must forever remain a doctrine to be held definitively (at least) by all the faithful. I would express the thesis in Latin as follows:
Definitive tenendum est mulierem primam vere et historice formatam esse a Deo e latere primi viri dormientis.
**DID WOMAN EVOLVE FROM THE BEASTS?
A DEFENCE OF TRADITIONAL CATHOLIC DOCTRINE - PART II **
A DEFENCE OF TRADITIONAL CATHOLIC DOCTRINE - PART I **
The purpose of this essay is to defend a doctrinal thesis which is quite simple, very clear, very classical, but now very unpopular — not to say outrightly scorned and derided. I will argue that the formation by God of the first woman, Eve, from the side of the sleeping, adult Adam had, by the year 1880, been proposed infallibly by the universal and ordinary magisterium of the Catholic Church as literally and historically true; so that this must forever remain a doctrine to be held definitively (at least) by all the faithful. I would express the thesis in Latin as follows:
Definitive tenendum est mulierem primam vere et historice formatam esse a Deo e latere primi viri dormientis.
**DID WOMAN EVOLVE FROM THE BEASTS?
A DEFENCE OF TRADITIONAL CATHOLIC DOCTRINE - PART II **
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Faith1960
Guest
Then maybe I should search for another religion???
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buffalo
Guest
No - you should learn the truth.Then maybe I should search for another religion???
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Faith1960
Guest
I’ve sent a couple emails to my pastor about the things I’m reading on here to see what he has to say.Then maybe I should search for another religion???
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Faith1960
Guest
What if I don’t believe what you or the essay says is the truth? If I don’t believe it, I don’t believe it. I may come to believe it in time, but if I don’t – then what?
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buffalo
Guest
Let me know what he says.
Let him look over the IDvolution site to see what modern science is showing about man’s origins. (He may have to be brought up to date.)
Just a question though - why is it so hard to believe?
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buffalo
Guest
The essays are rich with Church references and show the constant understanding and teaching of the Church. In any case, the truth will prevail. Revelation is not provisional. Science is provisional and the last ten years revelation’s have been astounding.
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Faith1960
Guest
I doubt I’ll relate what he says because I’m sure someone here will just find some reason to argue it.
It’s hard to believe because I just don’t. It makes no sense to me whatsoever.
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buffalo
Guest
Why does it not make sense? Perhaps I can help.
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