Event explores topic of women as ordained Catholic priests

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Invalid matter is something that means that there is no sacrament. For the Eucharist, valid matter is bread made from wheat. A donut would be invalid matter, so would cheese or something else.

If God despised women…He wouldn’t have bothered to create them.
 
Event explores topic of women as ordained Catholic priests

http://media.sacbee.com/smedia/2010/01/31/20/1M1WOMEN.embedded.prod_affiliate.4.JPG

To parishioners in her small Sacramento congregation, Elizabeth English is their Catholic priest: She presides over their Sunday Mass, leads them during Communion and baptizes their babies.

To the Roman Catholic Church, English symbolizes a topic that church leaders consider closed: the ordination of women priests.

English left the Roman Catholic Church five years ago to pursue her calling to the priesthood. She is now a priest in the Independent Catholic Church, a group not recognized by the Vatican. She is the only female Catholic priest in the Sacramento region.

“I had to leave the church; there was no place for me,” she said. “I wish there was.”

Last week, English joined a Nobel Peace Prize nominee who is also a priest and about 150 others at St. Mark’s Methodist Church in Sacramento to discuss the ordination of women priests.

Full Article]

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At a methodist church? do they have women priests?

people has taking over the Church of God and wants to do as they please. first they changed the Liturgy because it wasnt interesting to them, they want something that pleases the people. the Bishops fell right in to their traps. now, we are in turmoil. but we know who win, dont we?

**
“Without truth, charity ends up in sentimentalism. Love becomes an empty shell, to be filled arbitrarily. It is the fatal risk of love in a culture without truth. It falls prey to the emotions and contingent opinions of the individuals, an abused and distorted word, to the point of signifying the contrary.” BXVI**
 
At a methodist church? do they have women priests?

people has taking over the Church of God and wants to do as they please. first they changed the Liturgy because it wasnt interesting to them, they want something that pleases the people. the Bishops fell right in to their traps. now, we are in turmoil. but we know who win, dont we?

**
Without truth, charity ends up in sentimentalism**. Love becomes an empty shell, to be filled arbitrarily. It is the fatal risk of love in a culture without truth. It falls prey to the emotions and contingent opinions of the individuals, an abused and distorted word, to the point of signifying the contrary.” BXVI
Well brought up. Ever since I read ‘Caritas in Veritate’, that phrase constantly comes to mind.
 
Catholic teaching is hate the sin, love the sinner. . .again, care to enlighten us as to why you’d advocate corporal punishment? The Church certainly doesn’t. . .
Thank you for responding. Yes, I was taught all of the above both at home and in Catholic schools, in fact it was pounded into us. I think I must be the only one who got the message because the priest left and married a nun! Not fair!

I’m sixty years old, never married. Taught that boys only wanted “one thing” and that was to make me sin.

Since I was so afraid, I didn’t marry and then when JP2 said women’s roles were to be mothers, I felt completely left out. I still go to mass and I’m active at my church, just not in those roles. I am still trying to figure out what God wants of me-- at age 60.
 
And just because something is invalid matter doesn’t mean that it is dirty, or less valuable, than something which is valid.

Beer and pizza are as nourishing, and tasty food-wise, as plain wheat bread and wine. But beer and pizza aren’t valid matter for confecting the Eucharist. . .bread and wine are.

Your 6th grade teacher has a lot to answer for if she in any way made you think that women are second-class citizens in Christian-land. We aren’t.

Heck, are men second class because they can’t bear children? No. They aren’t ‘less than women’ because they don’t have a uterus. And women who have a hysterectomy don’t become ‘less than women’ either. Women are ‘more’ than their sexual parts; so are men.

We have different roles because God created us that way. He didn’t create Adam and Eve to have equal ‘functions’, and He didn’t make one ‘better’ than the other. But because in any group of ‘more than one’ there has to be one person who is the ‘head’ or leader (otherwise you would in a group of 2 have a constant 50/50 ‘split’ with nobody ever being able to have the ‘majority’ vote!), men are the ‘heads’ of their families, and women are the ‘neck and heart’. (you can’t ‘turn your head’ without the neck, and you have to have a ‘heart’ to balance a head’) That doesn’t mean that if you’re a woman married to a man who wants to spend his life shooting craps at Vegas rather than working to support his family that you need to become a ‘doormat’, "yes dear whatever you say dear’. Scripture and Tradition speak of men as heads in the spiritual sense more than the ‘societal’ sense. In a healthy society, men and women would work well together. We don’t have a very healthy society right now so we see a lot of anger and even hatred manifested toward men and women, with a lot of polarizing, a lot of distancing, a lot of scorn and a lot of ‘entitlement’ issues coming from both sexes.
 
Thank you for responding. Yes, I was taught all of the above both at home and in Catholic schools, in fact it was pounded into us. I think I must be the only one who got the message because the priest left and married a nun! Not fair!

I’m sixty years old, never married. Taught that boys only wanted “one thing” and that was to make me sin.

Since I was so afraid, I didn’t marry and then when PJ2 said women’s roles were to be mothers, I felt completely left out. I still go to mass and I’m active at my church, just not in those roles. I am still trying to figure out what God wants of me-- at age 60.
And God bless you for your faith and your search, even under those trying circumstances.

Wow --you surely got pasted. You’re my sister’s age and she never got that message either. . .we must have been lucky not only in our families but in our church location etc.

We were built to be capable of bearing children IF that was what God called us to do. Plenty of consecrated virgins who offered that to the Lord --I’d say in a sense that’s what you would up doing, so you aren’t ‘wrong’. Even though the reason (or a reason) you never married was that you were given wrong information, still, one teaching is certainly that we don’t live ‘unchastely’. . .and you’ve followed that teaching well.

If you haven’t checked out the Catechism of the Catholic Church (it’s online, one of the best sites is the Vatican one), it might be a good idea. Heck, even the old Baltimore Catechism doesn’t speak of women as inferior or men as ravening beasts (thank goodness). . .all that you got ‘extra’ was from some very, um, biased and ill-educated people. I don’t care HOW sincere they might have been, they were dead wrong and what they taught you was never official Catholic teaching.

You have many years left (I hope) on earth and I’m sure that your loving witness to God is what’s important, not your marital status. In fact, with no pesky husband, children or grandchildren in your life, you are able (as St. Paul said) to ‘concentrate on pleasing the Lord.’ So go for it! We’re all praying!🙂
 
And God bless you for your faith and your search, even under those trying circumstances.

Wow --you surely got pasted. You’re my sister’s age and she never got that message either. . .we must have been lucky not only in our families but in our church location etc.

We were built to be capable of bearing children IF that was what God called us to do. Plenty of consecrated virgins who offered that to the Lord --I’d say in a sense that’s what you would up doing, so you aren’t ‘wrong’. Even though the reason (or a reason) you never married was that you were given wrong information, still, one teaching is certainly that we don’t live ‘unchastely’. . .and you’ve followed that teaching well.

If you haven’t checked out the Catechism of the Catholic Church (it’s online, one of the best sites is the Vatican one), it might be a good idea. Heck, even the old Baltimore Catechism doesn’t speak of women as inferior or men as ravening beasts (thank goodness). . .all that you got ‘extra’ was from some very, um, biased and ill-educated people. I don’t care HOW sincere they might have been, they were dead wrong and what they taught you was never official Catholic teaching.

You have many years left (I hope) on earth and I’m sure that your loving witness to God is what’s important, not your marital status. In fact, with no pesky husband, children or grandchildren in your life, you are able (as St. Paul said) to ‘concentrate on pleasing the Lord.’ So go for it! We’re all praying!🙂
Thank you-- again! I need the prayers, and I definitely need the understanding you show here. Maybe God will help me use my mixed up life to somehow help others…?
That would be a blessing.
I love your honest style of communicating.

How do I link to the Online Catechism and the reference you gave?
PS: I will be joining our whole community catechesis team this month. I would not want to pass on any of my mistakes to innocent people/children. Pray for me in that endeavor, too.
 
Invalid matter is something that means that there is no sacrament. For the Eucharist, valid matter is bread made from wheat. A donut would be invalid matter, so would cheese or something else.
Yes, what he said. Here is a Catechism link.

usccb.org/catechism/text/

A sacrament has two elements, form and matter. The form of the Eucharist is words of consecration and the matter is bread made from wheat (as said above). For ordination, the matter is the man, and yes, the Church has said that males only are valid matter for this Sacrament. It is just the way Christ set it up. Nothing else about women is like a rutabaga, just that they are both invalid forms for a Sacrament. I could have use rhubarb.

In any case, this is one area that is closed by God to women. It is also closed* by the* Church at this time to married men. We all have gifts and talents that diffentiate us and by which we build each other up. If this has seemed to be a little of a downer, then go read I Corinthians. This is a wonderful thing to read when we feel a little left out of something at Church.

usccb.org/nab/bible/1corinthians/1corinthians12.htm
 
IMO the reason the Church doesn’t want women as priests is because eventually you would have few men as priests. Compare the number of women versus men in these positions: Eucharistic ministers and religious education teachers. If your parish is like mine women dominate. Look at people at Sunday Mass. If you look at people there by themselves I’d say women outnumber men 2 to 1.

If your pastor wasn’t male then men would see the Church as a mostly female entity.
The Church doesn’t allow for women to become priests for historical and relational issues. It has nothing to do with emotions and being unable to change with the times.

You are correct on the feminization of the Mass however. I believe there are only a couple of dioceses left who don’t allow for girls to serve at the altar. Lincoln Nebraska and Denver come to mind. From what I’ve read, there are no shortages of men in the pews or seminaries there. Orthodoxy is manly and they have the numbers to show.

In a typical Catholic parish where Fr. Friendly constantly defers to Sister Knows Best you end up with a congreation of mostly women and brow-beaten men.
 
The Church doesn’t allow for women to become priests for historical and relational issues. It has nothing to do with emotions and being unable to change with the times.

You are correct on the feminization of the Mass however. I believe there are only a couple of dioceses left who don’t allow for girls to serve at the altar. Lincoln Nebraska and Denver come to mind. From what I’ve read, there are no shortages of men in the pews or seminaries there. Orthodoxy is manly and they have the numbers to show.

In a typical Catholic parish where Fr. Friendly constantly defers to Sister Knows Best you end up with a congreation of mostly women and brow-beaten men.
Our priest is a “sacramental minister” and we have a “parish life coordinator”. There are no sisters (nuns) even though we have Catholic school. There are more women who are actively involved in the parish, more women who show up for just about everything, but who have no “voice”…except for the choir (one male member, fifteen females). Most ideas are quickly quashed by the PLC. And then there are all those rutabagas warming the pews.
 
Please join us all after this ‘event’ for other topics including:

“Men who have birthed children”.

“Beyond bread and wine–why beer and pizza are the coming trend for Eucharist confection”.

“Why the Trinity is passe–we know God is not ‘three’, rather, he is ME --why God does not exist ‘outside’ each individual.”

"Post Christian world requires post-Christian thinking --why terms like ‘one’ are to be jettisoned for inclusion’s sake. We do not believe in such a thing as “one” Church (which would ‘exclude’ others’) --we believe in a pantheon of ‘all’ churches and people/animals/energy points, and celebrate diversity rather than require a rigid and medieval adherence to ‘one’ way. Many paths, equally valid, lead to the ‘experience of transcentalism’ beyond the beyond’. Join us for navel gazing diversity which will explore everything BUT Christian teaching and celebrate IT as ‘truth’.

Yawn. . . . .
that is what happened when different faiths come together, different beliefs. we all need to be at peace with each other. how are we to be at peace with each other? we must stop bothering others with our faith, our beliefs. everybody is free to worship whatever they like. i wonder who started this line of thinking?
 
The Church doesn’t allow for women to become priests for historical and relational issues. It has nothing to do with emotions and being unable to change with the times.

You are correct on the feminization of the Mass however. I believe there are only a couple of dioceses left who don’t allow for girls to serve at the altar. Lincoln Nebraska and Denver come to mind. From what I’ve read, there are no shortages of men in the pews or seminaries there. Orthodoxy is manly and they have the numbers to show.

In a typical Catholic parish where Fr. Friendly constantly defers to Sister Knows Best you end up with a congreation of mostly women and brow-beaten men.
i agree. in my Parish women has taking over the Church. it is a sad situation. we have one of those friendly father who wants to look cool to everybody. after the Eucharist, the priest sits down and the women finishes the job. they take back the Eucharist and placed in teh Tabernacle. and i thougth this is against the Girm.
 
i agree. in my Parish women has taking over the Church. it is a sad situation. we have one of those friendly father who wants to look cool to everybody. after the Eucharist, the priest sits down and the women finishes the job. they take back the Eucharist and placed in teh Tabernacle. and i thougth this is against the Girm.
I don’t think that is against the “Girm” (?). The priest is supposed to sit down and that portion of the Mass is called Meditation. The women aren’t “doing the dishes” so to speak. I doubt that Father sits down in order to look cool, and trust me, those women “doing dishes” aren’t trying to take over!

I grew up pre-Vatican II, and women doing the dishes definitely wasn’t done at mass- it was done at home!
 
And then there are all those rutabagas warming the pews.
See. Isn’t it a fun word. Did you read Paul, BTW? It is good to reflect on those parts of the body that seem to be honored, yet without the other parts, they are nothing. The priests, without the women in the Church, would soon have an empty parish. Remember, one does not need to be a leader to be a leader. The last shall be first and a child shall lead them, etc.

Women, as parents and as teachers, can have a greater influence on our lives than any priest or bishop.
 
See. Isn’t it a fun word. Did you read Paul, BTW? It is good to reflect on those parts of the body that seem to be honored, yet without the other parts, they are nothing. The priests, without the women in the Church, would soon have an empty parish. Remember, one does not need to be a leader to be a leader. The last shall be first and a child shall lead them, etc.

Women, as parents and as teachers, can have a greater influence on our lives than any priest or bishop.
This has been very helpful to me today, between the responses of people on the forum, and knowing at least one is praying for me!
I will be joining the whole community catechesis team this month and it helps to have some food for thought, especially that isn’t as warped as I was taught, and which I believed ruined my life.
I will be down in the trenches, on the front lines, but not a General!😃
This has to be the Holy Spirit at work. (And maybe Mary, Mother of God…)

As for Paul. I read 1 and 2 Timothy last week and it sent me into a snit, but my (women’s) Bible group got me out of it.

If you hear someone rooting for the rutabagas, it’s probably me.🙂
 
i agree. in my Parish women has taking over the Church. it is a sad situation. [snip]
Agreed. I would clarify by saying the sad part isn’t simply the participation of women. It is that the lay ministry culture of many parishes (in USA at least) are not very welcoming to men. This seems like a huge pastoral opportunity.

In the last 15 years or so, there have been a huge rise in men’s ministries. But when you look at their numbers, they are still a drop in the bucket. So perhaps things are moving in the right direction.
 
Agreed. I would clarify by saying the sad part isn’t simply the participation of women. It is that the lay ministry culture of many parishes (in USA at least) are not very welcoming to men. This seems like a huge pastoral opportunity.

In the last 15 years or so, there have been a huge rise in men’s ministries. But when you look at their numbers, they are still a drop in the bucket. So perhaps things are moving in the right direction.
WHY is this? There is a shortage of priests! And if the men won’t step and do the job, i.e., enter seminaries, who else will?
Shouldn’t we be trusting the Holy Spirit to lead our churches? I do wonder why women are taking advantage of these opportunities to serve God, and men aren’t.

That “lay ministry culture” was created by Vatican II, when the Pope wanted more “lay participation.”
 
i agree. in my Parish women has taking over the Church. it is a sad situation. we have one of those friendly father who wants to look cool to everybody. after the Eucharist, the priest sits down and the women finishes the job. they take back the Eucharist and placed in teh Tabernacle. and i thougth this is against the Girm.
Well, we don’t have that problem in our archdiocese. We had a great Arcbishop Burke who relied on the Holy Spirit and called many of our institutions back to true Teachings of the Church. Our seminary has doubled in size. All the seminarians are required to learn the TLM. One of seminarians is praying to have his first mass at the Oratory of St Francis de Sales, which is TLM only.
 
Shouldn’t we be trusting the Holy Spirit to lead our churches? I do wonder why women are taking advantage of these opportunities to serve God, and men aren’t.

That “lay ministry culture” was created by Vatican II, when the Pope wanted more “lay participation.”
I think you hit an important point. My wife was discussing this with me last night. We are turning over some of duties proper to an acolyte and lector to two deacon candidates that are in formation and assigned those roles. We have a seminarian that is back in the states this year and will be taking on liturgical rules. Our response was “Whew!!” There are some that may enjoy the prestige of lay ministry, but most of us work because there is more work to be done than a single priest can do. It is one of the good problems of growth. Twelve years ago we had four Masses and 600 families. Now we have 1000 families and five Masses (weekend). The laity need to roll up their sleeves, men and women. For at least a while we will have three deacons and the laity can turn over the visible roles, those of leadership over to them.

For the laity, the women, there will always be plenty to do. Having more volunteers than work is never a problem in the body of Christ.
 
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