Ever been denied Holy Communion for kneeling while receiving?

[SunnaB16]

If you ask me, not following rubrics could be a sign they’re not Catholic. Especially the simple thing like saying, “Amen.” Although we can’t discount the poorly Catechized.

There can be another factor: some priests can get you so rattled that you forget to say: “Amen”.
It happened to me a few times, before finally switching to the TLM. i`m full of anxiety at the best of times; and when having to approach any priest suspected of being opposed to COTT, i tended to freeze…at a time which should have been a moment of great longing and joy! Does nothing for your disposition.

One priest tackled me after Mass, and attempted to ***intimidate ***me into reverting to CITH. Sought greener pastures. Later on, i was told that he pulled the same stunt on others. He also claimed, during a sermon, that the Church was going to ban COTT because of the SARS scare.

A lot of bishops and priests are going to have to answer to God for the distress they`ve inflicted on members of their flocks. How many have they driven into the hands of breakaway groups?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Your statement means that kneeling is an abuse, just not grave enough to deny Communion. The reality is that it isn’t an abuse, it’s perfectly legitimate and nobody who kneels is to be considered disobedient. Rome has made that perfectly clear by actually saying “Indeed, the faithful should not be imposed upon nor accused of disobedience and of acting illicitly when they kneel to receive Holy Communion”.

Well, it is breaking the rubrics. I know people here are very adamant about priests following the rubrics. Why then does the congregation get a free pass from it? I mean, people here are so quick to bring out the GIRM and point where the priest didn’t follow but we forget that there are things that we also should follow. We’re playing with semantics here. Abuse, disobedience, whatever, bottom line is the GIRM calls for such and we do not follow what the GIRM says. At least for those in the US.

As for the “Amen”, last Christmas the young priest who was with us to learn English refused to give Communion to an elder in the neighboring native community for just that reason. He was told to stay away from that community after that.

I’ve never seen that happen. The most I’ve seen is what I described, that the priest will keep repeating “Body of Christ” until the communicant responds. But sometimes after the third he will whisper to the communicant and ask if he’s Catholic.

 

[archangel04]

Well, it is breaking the rubrics. I know people here are very adamant about priests following the rubrics. Why then does the congregation get a free pass from it? I mean, people here are so quick to bring out the GIRM and point where the priest didn’t follow but we forget that there are things that we also should follow. We’re playing with semantics here. Abuse, disobedience, whatever, bottom line is the GIRM calls for such and we do not follow what the GIRM says. At least for those in the US.

**The Vatican allows for someone to kneel and clearly states that no one can be denied communion because of these pious acts. I can say the same thing about altar server girls, no where in the rubrics does it call for females to be up in the santuary, but yet people are so quick to come out with the '94 document. Rome has spoken on both issues for now and neigther of them are abuses. A priest role is MUCH more strict in following the rubrics compated to use. We are call to actively participate in the mass, priest are called to more than that. **

I’ve never seen that happen. The most I’ve seen is what I described, that the priest will keep repeating “Body of Christ” until the communicant responds. But sometimes after the third he will whisper to the communicant and ask if he’s Catholic.

 

[Aramis]

All this didn’t seem like a problem when people knelt to receive communion COTT at the rail on soft padding with a trained server holding a paten under each chin. And without the Amen. The height difference doesn’t seem to matter too much when everyone kneels at the railing.

The funny thing is that no one knows how the practice of standing started in the West. And now there are disobedience issues if you don’t stand?

Nor is it clear why it was ever discontinued in the first place, PV. Standing to receive is the ancient way.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The Vatican allows for someone to kneel and clearly states that no one can be denied communion because of these pious acts. I can say the same thing about altar server girls, no where in the rubrics does it call for females to be up in the santuary, but yet people are so quick to come out with the '94 document. Rome has spoken on both issues for now and neigther of them are abuses. A priest role is MUCH more strict in following the rubrics compated to use. We are call to actively participate in the mass, priest are called to more than that.

First, I really wish you’d post your response outside of the quotes.

Second, I never advocated for denial of Communion to anyone except if they’re not Catholic or they have been excommunicated. Those are the only provisions the Church has decreed that one can be denied Communion. Third is of course public scandal, but that really is hard to enforce. I’m just stating the point that there are norms on the GIRM and that there are those so adamant that the priests follow it to the letter, but at the same time wouldn’t think twice about breaking it for their own preference.

 

[cjforJesus]

Nor is it clear why it was ever discontinued in the first place, PV. Standing to receive is the ancient way.

What difference does it make, kneeling or standing ,as long as you are not standing on your head.

 

[ProVobis]

Nor is it clear why it was ever discontinued in the first place, PV. Standing to receive is the ancient way.

The ancients were this -]messed up/-] stressed out?

 

[cjforJesus]

or kneeling on the priests foot.

 

[ProVobis]

Nor is it clear why it was ever discontinued in the first place, PV. Standing to receive is the ancient way.

The ancients were this -]messed up/-] stressed out about it inside their catacombs?

 

[Aramis]

The ancients were this -]messed up/-] stressed out about it inside their catacombs?

Every period picture I’ve ever seen of the liturgies in the catacombs shows everyone standing. The Christian East, both Catholic and Orthodox, stand to receive.

So the question becomes, “Why did the Roman church break from the genuine Tradition?”

 

[cjforJesus]

Every period picture I’ve ever seen of the liturgies in the catacombs shows everyone standing. The Christian East, both Catholic and Orthodox, stand to receive.

So the question becomes, “Why did the Roman church break from the genuine Tradition?”/QUOTE

What was the genuine tradition in times of non persecution?

 

[ConstantineTG]

What was the genuine tradition in times of non persecution?

Same. The East never knelt for Communion until today.

 

[JReducation]

Every period picture I’ve ever seen of the liturgies in the catacombs shows everyone standing. The Christian East, both Catholic and Orthodox, stand to receive.

So the question becomes, “Why did the Roman church break from the genuine Tradition?”

Bold is mine.

Genuine tradition is not the word that you may want to use here. We stop and think about Jesus, the Apostles, the Fathers of the Church and we can see “genuine tradition”. Other little things that come up here and there are traditions, but they’re not in the same category. Jesus did not set it up in any specific way. We (the Church) evolved with the passage of time. In some Churches the custom of kneeling was adopted, because it was a way of showing reverence among a particular group of Christians. Other Christians never adopted it, because it was not their way of showing reverence.

We have to stop and ask ourselves what does Jesus want from us. He wants our love and our fidelity. I think that the old Baltimore Catechism said it well, "God made us to love him . . . . " We come to Jesus with great love and we should do whatever is in our hearts and in our power to show him how much we love him and to accept his love too. For some it may be kneeling. For others it may be standing.

Whichever we do, we must do it out of great love. To do it because it’s a rule or a because everyone does it falls short of the mark. Our love for Christ must be filled with great kindness toward him, as he is kind to us. Our kindness must extend outward toward those who are receiving communion around us too.

If we live by the Spirit, we are pure and humble and loving in everything that we do. We are not quarrelsome or antagonistic. If kneeling or standing becomes a point of quarrel or antagonism, then it most likely comes from us and not from God. God is not divisive, nor does he push people to quarrel. He gently nudges us in the right direction. One of my favorite theology teachers was Fr. Thomas Dubay. He was the most orthodox man I knew and the most gentle in manner when helping others.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[cjforJesus]

Same. The East never knelt for Communion until today.

So why should this be a point of contention? The Roman Catholic Church allows for both postures.

 

[cjforJesus]

Bold is mine.

Genuine tradition is not the word that you may want to use here. We stop and think about Jesus, the Apostles, the Fathers of the Church and we can see “genuine tradition”. Other little things that come up here and there are traditions, but they’re not in the same category. Jesus did not set it up in any specific way. We (the Church) evolved with the passage of time. In some Churches the custom of kneeling was adopted, because it was a way of showing reverence among a particular group of Christians. Other Christians never adopted it, because it was not their way of showing reverence.

We have to stop and ask ourselves what does Jesus want from us. He wants our love and our fidelity. I think that the old Baltimore Catechism said it well, "God made us to love him . . . . " We come to Jesus with great love and we should do whatever is in our hearts and in our power to show him how much we love him and to accept his love too. For some it may be kneeling. For others it may be standing.

Whichever we do, we must do it out of great love. To do it because it’s a rule or a because everyone does it falls short of the mark. Our love for Christ must be filled with great kindness toward him, as he is kind to us. Our kindness must extend outward toward those who are receiving communion around us too.

If we live by the Spirit, we are pure and humble and loving in everything that we do. We are not quarrelsome or antagonistic. If kneeling or standing becomes a point of quarrel or antagonism, then it most likely comes from us and not from God. God is not divisive, nor does he push people to quarrel. He gently nudges us in the right direction. One of my favorite theology teachers was Fr. Thomas Dubay. He was the most orthodox man I knew and the most gentle in manner when helping others.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

beautifully said!

 

[ConstantineTG]

So why should this be a point of contention? The Roman Catholic Church allows for both postures.

I don’t see a contention. Aramis is just pointing out the fact that many would say that kneeling is the traditional way to receive, when in fact standing pre-dates kneeling and is a more universal way of receiving throughout the universal Church.

 

[cjforJesus]

The OP asked if one has ever been denied communion for kneeling.

The church makes allowances for both postures as it is a matter of the heart. I have not encountered a priest yet who denied me Holy Communion because my form of reverence is kneeling.

For a brief time I did receive on the tongue standing,but it just did not feel right to me,not that it is wrong for anyone else,as I said it’s worship and a matter of conscience.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The OP asked if one has ever been denied communion for kneeling.

The church makes allowances for both postures as it is a matter of the heart. I have not encountered a priest yet who denied me Holy Communion because my form of reverence is kneeling.

For a brief time I did receive on the tongue standing,but it just did not feel right to me,not that it is wrong for anyone else,as I said it’s worship and a matter of conscience.

Understand too that the Church has every right to regulate our disciplines during worship. Otherwise it becomes a liturgical-free-for-all. We should always look to the Church as the wiser in any situation. Didn’t St. Paul say that the Church is the pillar of truth?

 

[Layman]

So, in Roman Catholicism, what’s the benefit in changing from COTT, kneeling, from a priest, to CITH, standing, from a laywoman?**

I mean, why do that, in the context of what kneeling means and meant in Western societies?

**[Time saving hint: there isn’t any]

 

[ProVobis]

It is really difficult to see how standing was ever allowed, much less forced.

Isaiah 45:
24 ὅτι ἐμοὶ κάμψει πᾶν γόνυ καὶ ἐξομολογήσεται πᾶσα γλῶσσα τῷ θεῷ
24 quia mihi curvabitur omne genu, et jurabit omnis lingua.
24 For every knee shall be bowed to me, and every tongue shall swear

Phillipians 2:
10 ἵνα ἐν τῷ ὀνόματι Ἰησοῦ πᾶν γόνυ κάμψῃ ἐπουρανίων καὶ ἐπιγείων καὶ καταχθονίων,11 καὶ πᾶσα γλῶσσα ἐξομολογήσηται ὅτι κύριος Ἰησοῦς Χριστὸς εἰς δόξαν θεοῦ πατρός.
10 ut in nomine Jesu omne genu flectatur cælestium, terrestrium et infernorum, 11 et omnis lingua confiteatur, quia Dominus Jesus Christus in gloria est Dei Patris.
10 That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth: 11 And that every tongue should confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.

Romans 14:
11 γέγραπται γάρ, ζῶ ἐγώ, λέγει κύριος, ὅτι ἐμοὶ κάμψει πᾶν γόνυ, καὶ πᾶσα γλῶσσα ἐξομολογήσεται τῷ θεῷ.
11 Scriptum est enim : Vivo ego, dicit Dominus, quoniam mihi flectetur omne genu : et omnis lingua confitebitur Deo.
11 For it is written: As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me and every tongue shall confess to God.