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Bl_Pope_Pius_IX
Guest
Nice rebuttal.
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JReducation
Guest
Standing was not eactly introduced. It was part of the culture of the time. In many of the Apostolic Churches they kept the tradition to this day. In other words, the Apostles themselves allowed it to exist. Don’t forget, there are some 22 Churches that make up the Catholic Church. Most of them stand and have always stood, since the time of the Apostles. Those Apostles who founded those Churches allowed standing for whatever reason.
You see, the Apostles were not looking to see who was standing and who was kneelings. They were looking for something deeper. Paul explains it well when he says that one should approach the Eucharist worthily. This is what they Apostles were looking for, the state of the soul in the person receiving Christ. The posture was accidental.
I always use this analogy. The President of the US walks into a room and everyone stands out of respect. A teacher or adult walks into a room and the students stand.
In the Far East, people bow from the waste to show respect.
In Europe people went down on one knee as a sign of respect.
In India people almost folded over in half.
Let’s no be so hard on each other. Instead, let us encourage each other to show our love for Christ in the wya that we know best. Jesus is not impressed because people feel guilty, but by how they love. Guilt can be a good thing, if it leads one to avoid evil and do good. It can be a very bad thing, if it leads someone to give up and throw in the towel. Love is much more secure. Let us build on love and not on guilt, which is a double eadge sword.
I always say, “Teach others what the Church believes, not what you believe. After you finish teaching the other person, you may find that you have learned something yourself.”
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Phemie
Guest
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Layman
Guest
To answer the OP:
If there’s no communion rail and everyone else is standing you might get funny looks if you try to receive kneeling.
It’s easier just to find another church or go to a TLM.
Standing to receive Communion has not been done in the Roman rite for a very long time. It’s an odd thing to do, to change over from kneeling, to standing, if you believe Christ is present in the Host.
If there’s no communion rail and everyone else is standing you might get funny looks if you try to receive kneeling.
It’s easier just to find another church or go to a TLM.
Standing to receive Communion has not been done in the Roman rite for a very long time. It’s an odd thing to do, to change over from kneeling, to standing, if you believe Christ is present in the Host.
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ProVobis
Guest
Indeed. To go from sitting to standing is one thing, and I can understand that to show respect to a judge in court or when the national anthem is played, for example, but to go from kneeling, which worked so well for many centuries, to some other posture just doesn’t make sense if we’re talking about receiving our Lord. What kind of message is being sent here? Why were kneelers even invented?
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ConstantineTG
Guest
And very Protestant at that, quoting verses out of context. I can easily start quoting verses which says we stand before the Lord, but I won’t bother. Just note that theres as easily as many number of verses that would say “stand before the Lord”.
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Bl_Pope_Pius_IX
Guest
well,
- I wasn’t being 100% serious when I complemented his argument
- I completely understand where you are coming from. Though I see substance in BOTH arguments. Though I think it is better that, when possible, receive the Most Blessed Sacrament when kneeling. I think it is a PERSONAL choice, not one to be dealt with by Biblical verses, although I really don’t see how it can hurt. Since it is a personal choice, I think every (capable) Priest should respect those choices.
- How can someone quote the Bible IN context? Most responses I see to Bible-Quoters are that they take it out of context.
- I apologize for responding so late.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
I go with what Bro. JR said. No matter what our posture is, if we don’t prepare ourselves for receiving Christ, its all moot. But I also recommend to follow what the Church says. Its important to follow the little things because discipline in little things means discipline in big things. If we can’t follow our Bishop regarding the small stuff, we’d learn how to disobey with the bigger stuff. I always say this about sin, that the bank robber didn’t start out by robbing banks but by being a petty thief. It also is true for obedience.
In context would be how a particular verse is really meant in relation to the entire chapter or story where the verse came from. Indeed we should show respect to God, but to start quoting verses that says we kneel and then associate it with Communion when the quoted verse is not referring to Communion is taking it out of context.
By time of day, I live on the west coast so its still not late here
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ProVobis
Guest
Ok to be fair to the standing-only crowd, here is one from Deuteronomy 10:8
And another from 1 Kings 19:11
One is free to draw his own conclusions from this.
There’s a limit here to something like 6000 characters. As long as the chapter and verse is given, one is always free to read the entire book for the overall context before replying.
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Bl_Pope_Pius_IX
Guest
At my Parish, as I have said before, it is not looked down upon, or up upon. Infact, I would doubt if it has been recent addressed. So I make my answers to the choices layed before me with my own conscience. Though if my Pastor was to tell me to refrain from kneeling, then I would obey him, unless I could not resist the urge to show MORE reverence to GOD, and in that case I would have to say farewell.I go with what Bro. JR said. No matter what our posture is, if we don’t prepare ourselves for receiving Christ, its all moot. But I also recommend to follow what the Church says. Its important to follow the little things because discipline in little things means discipline in big things. If we can’t follow our Bishop regarding the small stuff, we’d learn how to disobey with the bigger stuff. I always say this about sin, that the bank robber didn’t start out by robbing banks but by being a petty thief. It also is true for obedience.
In context would be how a particular verse is really meant in relation to the entire chapter or story where the verse came from. Indeed we should show respect to God, but to start quoting verses that says we kneel and then associate it with Communion when the quoted verse is not referring to Communion is taking it out of context.
By time of day, I live on the west coast so its still not late here
I understand your explanation about in context and out of context Biblical verses, thank you.
God Bless, though I am sure we’ll run in again.
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MarkThompson
Guest
Proof of atheism: Psalm 14:1 (13:1), “There is no God.”
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ConstantineTG
Guest
To be fair to those who kneel, I think those who stand should also be “addressed pastorally” if they do not bow before receiving.At my Parish, as I have said before, it is not looked down upon, or up upon. Infact, I would doubt if it has been recent addressed. So I make my answers to the choices layed before me with my own conscience. Though if my Pastor was to tell me to refrain from kneeling, then I would obey him, unless I could not resist the urge to show MORE reverence to GOD, and in that case I would have to say farewell.
I understand your explanation about in context and out of context Biblical verses, thank you.
God Bless, though I am sure we’ll run in again.
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Layman
Guest
‘Pastor’ means shepherd, right?
So, the shepherd could address the matter pastorally by reaching for his crook, hooking the Communicants neck and giving it a good yank. Even unto pulling the Communicant to their knees. Verily.
My family keep sheep. I’ve been a shepherd. Sheep are charming creatures but they follow the herd, occasionally panic and they also get stuck in ditches or briars they need to be pulled out of.
So, the shepherd could address the matter pastorally by reaching for his crook, hooking the Communicants neck and giving it a good yank. Even unto pulling the Communicant to their knees. Verily.
My family keep sheep. I’ve been a shepherd. Sheep are charming creatures but they follow the herd, occasionally panic and they also get stuck in ditches or briars they need to be pulled out of.
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plefe
Guest
There are a handful of us in my parish who kneel for communion. Father has never denied or said anything in private to us. The Bishop offered Mass last week and my thought was that he fell right into practice as if everyone knelt. I’ve told a few people who are strangers that I kneel for communion who have been behind me, and it hasn’t been mentioned in a negative manner back. God bless.
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JReducation
Guest
People get very confused and heated up over a subject that should not be so confusing and so heated. Receiving communion while standing is the norm for the dioceses of the USA. The term norm, means just that. It is the usual way to do it. It does not abrogate the kneeling. Those who want to kneel, may do so. The reason for the revision in the USA was to answer a question; “What’s the norm for the USA?” It was never meant to ban kneeling.
There are situations when kneeling is the norm, such as at the EF and in certain religious communities. In those cases, standing is not banned either. It is an incorrect assumption that standing to receive communion at the EF is banned. This is not the case. There no such rule in the books. However, it is the norm for the EF.
Aside from what is the norm, there are situations when it is the law to stand or to kneel. But most lay people are never in these situations, since most American Catholics are Romans. If you ae Oriental then there are laws in some Oriental Catholic Churches where kneeling is never allowed. If you attend mass at certain religious houses of men, you are not allowed to kneel for Holy Communion there either. In those cases, it’s not a matter of norm, it is a matter of law. But seriously, how many people ever find themselve at such masses?
If you feel like kneeling, by all means do so. If you want to stand, then do that. Whichever you choose, remember that the reception of Holy Communion is about Jesus, not about how you and I feel. In my own community the law is that you stand, regardless of how you feel. The few lay people who attend mass at our chapel stand, even if they prefer to kneel. In that case, the law has a reason for it. If there is no law one way or the other, then do either. Just remember, that you must come to the Eucharist with a heart filled with love for Jesus, not filled with pride. Keep in mind, that in some places, it is more practical to stand and the pastor has the right to ask that people cooperate. These are not many places, but once in a while, you may find yourself in a place where there is not enough space to navigate around someone who is kneeling.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
There are situations when kneeling is the norm, such as at the EF and in certain religious communities. In those cases, standing is not banned either. It is an incorrect assumption that standing to receive communion at the EF is banned. This is not the case. There no such rule in the books. However, it is the norm for the EF.
Aside from what is the norm, there are situations when it is the law to stand or to kneel. But most lay people are never in these situations, since most American Catholics are Romans. If you ae Oriental then there are laws in some Oriental Catholic Churches where kneeling is never allowed. If you attend mass at certain religious houses of men, you are not allowed to kneel for Holy Communion there either. In those cases, it’s not a matter of norm, it is a matter of law. But seriously, how many people ever find themselve at such masses?
If you feel like kneeling, by all means do so. If you want to stand, then do that. Whichever you choose, remember that the reception of Holy Communion is about Jesus, not about how you and I feel. In my own community the law is that you stand, regardless of how you feel. The few lay people who attend mass at our chapel stand, even if they prefer to kneel. In that case, the law has a reason for it. If there is no law one way or the other, then do either. Just remember, that you must come to the Eucharist with a heart filled with love for Jesus, not filled with pride. Keep in mind, that in some places, it is more practical to stand and the pastor has the right to ask that people cooperate. These are not many places, but once in a while, you may find yourself in a place where there is not enough space to navigate around someone who is kneeling.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Layman
Guest
This does not explain why this ‘norm’ was established, instead of kneeling, which is the traditional way. It makes no sense, in Western culture, to change from kneeling, to standing, for Communion.
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EmergencyOps
Guest
Thanks for the link, Phemie. It makes for really good reading. And it supports the statements made by some posters, including Br. JR, that in a lot of cases of denied Holy Communion it is a “battle of wills”. As for disturbing the religious gathering, what happened in Nova Scotia, Canada sounds like what happens here in The States:
It’s not like they performed a “sit in” in front of the congregation or chained themselves to the altar.
As for myself, I am not able to take Communion (rightly so) when I attend Mass with my Catholic wife. If I do cross the Tiber, I would want to receive via COTT. I would have to speak with my Parish first, however. The nearest TLM would be 30-45 minutes away if my town’s church is adamantly opposed to COTT.
-Mark
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Matthew_Holford
Guest
I find it utterly bewildering why Latin Catholic bishops and priests should insist that the faithful should receive Communion on the hand while standing. Those who want to receive on the tongue and kneeling do so because they want to show respect to our Lord. Why do they object to the faithful showing appropriate respect to our Lord? I anticipate that some people may respond to this post by saying we should receive as directed by our bishops and priests out of respect for and in obedience to them. Well, what about these bishops and priests showing respect and obedience to the supreme authority of the Church, which has repeatedly said that anyone who wishes to receive our Lord’s Sacred Body on their tongue they are to be given Communion on the tongue and if a communicant wishes to receive Communion while knelt down they should be allowed to receive it kneeling down.
I remember when I was an altar server we were taught by the priest that if a mistake was made during a liturgy we were to carry on as if nothing had happened and not to draw attention to the mistake. That way most people would not notice and the liturgy would not be disrupted. Bishops and priests who insist on communicants receiving in a particular way should heed the advice of my former parish priest. Act like nothing out of the ordinary has happened, place the host on the communicant’s tongue, may be while they’re kneeling and the Mass carries on undisturbed.
Bishops and priests should allow the faithful the freedom that Holy Mother Church has given them. I like it when H.E. Francis Cardinal Arinze speaks on this matter - he always says: “the people should be left in peace not pieces”.
I remember when I was an altar server we were taught by the priest that if a mistake was made during a liturgy we were to carry on as if nothing had happened and not to draw attention to the mistake. That way most people would not notice and the liturgy would not be disrupted. Bishops and priests who insist on communicants receiving in a particular way should heed the advice of my former parish priest. Act like nothing out of the ordinary has happened, place the host on the communicant’s tongue, may be while they’re kneeling and the Mass carries on undisturbed.
Bishops and priests should allow the faithful the freedom that Holy Mother Church has given them. I like it when H.E. Francis Cardinal Arinze speaks on this matter - he always says: “the people should be left in peace not pieces”.
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