Ever Just Get Tired Of Debating Topics Here?

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There is such a thing as too much of a good thing. I think religion is right up there. You can’t sustain thinking about these things 24/7. Even those of us who live the conventual life play sports, table games, read novels, go for walks or have hobbies.

What I do believe gets an overkill on the TC Forum are several subjects:

EF vs OF, CITH vs COTT, EMHC and SSPX. You can only answer so many questions about these topics before you feel like you’re on cable TV watching reruns.

I also feel badly because we had several priests, deacons, sisters and brothers who used to post regularly on CAF. They became frustrated, because some posters are nasty to clergy and religious. I find this sad that those who claim to defend the faith cannot separate the person from his or her state in life. Someone on CAF, I can’t remember who, once said that you don’t speak to your peers and your parents the same way, even if they are both acting the fool. A good son or daughter exercises a certain amount of restraint in speaking to his or her parents.

This made me think. We do this all the time. The cop stops us and says that we’re speeding. We know we were not. We don’t jump on his case. We say “Yes Sir” or “No M’am” and we try to find the most polite way of responding. The debating with the deacons, priests and religious gets old. That’s not just in TC forum. It’s worse in other forums.

My point is that it’s sad that these men and women have walked away, because they have a lot of insight, experience and they know the Church from the inside. I know some of them and if those posters who are ugly to them ever met them, they would be very surprised at how kind and devout these men and women are. It’s one thing when a priest or religious discusses theology as an academic exercise (such as CAF) and another when you see him or her in action when serving God’s people.

I’d like to see the deacons, priests, sisters and brothers come back in the large numbers as they were when I joined. I was introduced to CAF by a deacon. My superior was against it. I had to ask three times for permission to join CAF. I miss those guys and gals. It was nice talking to them even if it was via PM. It gets lonely being one of the few religious here, at least openly here.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I don’t debate. If I am asked about the Church’s position on something I find the answer and tell it. If they don’t like the answer, then it is not my issue. If they teach me something about true Church teaching, then great. I don’t have time to “debate”. I have seen where the other roads lead and I don’t want to go there. If somebody else needs to bang their head on the wall in order for God to get through to them, then I will pray for them and let them bang away. God bless.
 
Well Brother JR if it weren’t for religious like you I would be lost amid opinions. Maybe you could tell others that in order to bring them back to CAF. Some of us are actually looking for answers and not trying to fulfill an agenda or looking for trouble.
 
Im a debater so giving a good counter argument to spurious and incorrect claims is no problem for me.

However I do generally take breaks every once in a while, purely through disinterest in whats currently on the cards so to speak, or because Im simply not in the mood for ignorant trollish arguments.
 
rben20 said:
Well Brother JR if it weren’t for religious like you I would be lost amid opinions. Maybe you could tell others that in order to bring them back to CAF. Some of us are actually looking for answers and not trying to fulfill an agenda or looking for trouble.
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👍
 
Sometimes, I do have to take a break. BUT, I love the Catholic Answers forum. It’s such a wealth of information and even some of the ridiculous anti-Catholic rhetoric serves a purpose in a way. I do deeply appreciate the patience and kindness of all those who share from their superior knowledge of our faith. I am a life long Catholic, fallen away for years, but back with a heart on fire for the faith. People like JR bring such a spirit of love into every post and have a kindness toward those who seem angry, lost and hopeless. I can’t help but believe that even the worst trash talking anti Catholic who ever posted here was led here for a reason. I pray for those who have not yet found their way and thank God for all on the CAF who are willing to share. I was a lurker for a long time as I knew how much I needed to learn. If it weren’t for your charity, who knows where I’d be today. Don’t stop, please!
 
I think that a thread may very well be “dead” after 30 posts. That’s just a guess. I try to jump in only on new threads where I may be able to add something to the conversation.

In the last two weeks, I answered the thread about how God allowed slavery in the Bible.

Well, I came in at around post #27 and I had the only Biblical answer, which I thought answered the original question, and it made me think a bit too. It took maybe three posts for me to clarify the answer. But, then, when I posted, the thread was dormant for a couple days, and somebody submitted another post, obviously not having read my posts, which were the definitive answer to the question – imo.

Then, there was another “which bible should I buy” thread. My response to that one was pretty dry, almost sarcastic. So many posters TALK ABOUT the Ignatius Study Bible but I don’t see many people quoting from it, for example. They don’t cite anything about why that is so good. Truthfully, there are some helpful comments in there, but a study bible is still very limited in scope. It doesn’t have THAT much space to unpack various issues.

I usually avoid threads with a lot of question marks in the title: “How about that ???” or the threads that don’t express the subject in the title, like "I have a question" (yeah, so do I)

I try to inject some humor or make an attempt at it, once in a while. I don’t see that often.

Sometimes I just pass on a thread because I figure there’s lots of intelligent people who answer questions, usually much better than I do.
 
The_Reginator said:
You certainly don’t need to leave CA just to have a break.
I view many threads and post on a few. I make sure that I stay involved in a number of ‘light-hearted’ threads for balance. (For instance, I’ll visit ‘Ignore This!’ before shutting off the computer, rather than going to bed after a fight.)
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Good advice, indeed.

Burned out? Make the Prayer Intentions threads your home page. Look at the true needs of those (some of whom are not even Catholic) asking for our prayers. Now that is our opportunity for true unity and charity in action. I will go the extra mile for them.
 
Here’s a new motto for bracelets: WWSPD? What would Saint Paul do?

Consider 2 Corinthians 11:23-30 “Are they ministers of Christ? (I am talking like an insane person.) I am still more, with far greater labors, far more imprisonments, far worse beatings, and numerous brushes with death. Five times at the hands of the Jews I received forty lashes minus one. Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, I passed a night and a day on the deep; on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my own race, dangers from Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers at sea, dangers among false brothers; in toil and hardship, through many sleepless nights, through hunger and thirst, through frequent fastings, through cold and exposure. And apart from these things, there is the daily pressure upon me of my anxiety for all the churches. Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is led to sin, and I am not indignant? If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness.”

The sword of the Roman executioner announced his rest to him. It must have been a blessed relief.
 
Yes very tired of Christianity’s/Catholicism’s social justice somehow being melted in with conservative US Republican politics.
 
The greatest truth that we must all remember is really a double-sided coin. On one side of the coin it says, “There is God and he is good.” The other side of the same coin says, “Thank God that he is good, because we’re all sinners.” To me, these two statements are really two sides of one eternal truth.

What does that have to do with this thread? Here is how I see it. If you observe the debates carefully, watch how often people point out to others the error of their ways. Ask yourself, how many times people admit their own errors. This is what triggers debates. Such comments come off as condescending.

If you’re going to tell someone that receiving communion in the hand is a lack of faith in the Blessed Sacrament, you must be careful. What you’re saying to that person is that their faith is lacking. Maybe you receive COTT, but you are unforgiving of the faults in others. Isn’t your faith equally lacking?

St. Teresa of Avila always said, “God preserve me from sour faced saints.” She was referring a movement that was very common in her time. There were Catholics who called themselves the Illuminati. They believed that they were all that and a bag of chips. But they were the most sour people. Whenever they spoke to others who were struggling with their faith, they did not inspire. Instead, they made people feel worse. Teresa, on the other hand, had a wonderful sense of humor. When she met someone who struggled with his or her faith, she would laugh. She was known for pointing out the ridiculous in our shortcomings. The key here is to notice how she found the common shortcomings between her and those whom she was trying to help. Equally important is how she played it down with humor, helping the other person realize that nothing was impossible. When people struggled with their faith or did something wrong, she would insist that they try again. She never said that they were wrong. Her favorite expression was, “You can do better than that?”

My last example from her was when it came to talking about her faith and why she did or did not do certain things. She often gave the same answer. “Why are you asking me? I have no idea why God does this. I just follow along.” She never tried to tell people why she did what she did. She always pointed to what God did and then said that she had no idea why he did it.

Her humor, her encouragement of others to do better, and her humility that it was God who did it, not her, disarmed people. You can’t debate with a person like that. They are not placing themselves as your teacher, but as your equal.

The debates will decrease when we learn to share rather than teach. The word “teach” as Jesus used it in the Gospel and as we use it today is very different. If you want to understand what Jesus means when he said, “Go out and teach all nations” take a close look at the role of the Rabbi. Rabbi, as we know, means teacher. Rabbis were not authoritarian teachers. They were very unassuming. We have taken the command to teach and have become authoritarian. That triggers a negative reaction in others.

I truly believe that men and women like Francis of Assisi, Teresa of Avila, Don Bosco, Mother Teresa were loved because they were non threatening. They were funny. They were gentle. They admitted their own faults before pointing to those in others. Most importantly, they knew that nothing was impossible for God. Conversion of others did not depend on them. All they had to do was to be present so that others could see the Christian life in practice. They pushed themselves, not others. They were very visually oriented.

They are great models for us today, because we live in a world where a whole generation is visual. It’s not a generation that is oriented toward words, but toward images. We can avoid arguments if we learn to paint pictures with our words.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
CMatt25 said:
Yes very tired of Christianity’s/Catholicism’s social justice somehow being melted in with conservative US Republican politics.
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The more that you allow your faith to inform your politics, the less of a problem it will be. At least it was for me.
 
JReducation said:
The greatest truth that we must all remember is really a double-sided coin. On one side of the coin it says, “There is God and he is good.” The other side of the same coin says, “Thank God that he is good, because we’re all sinners.” To me, these two statements are really two sides of one eternal truth.

What does that have to do with this thread? Here is how I see it. If you observe the debates carefully, watch how often people point out to others the error of their ways. Ask yourself, how many times people admit their own errors. This is what triggers debates. Such comments come off as condescending.

If you’re going to tell someone that receiving communion in the hand is a lack of faith in the Blessed Sacrament, you must be careful. What you’re saying to that person is that their faith is lacking. Maybe you receive COTT, but you are unforgiving of the faults in others. Isn’t your faith equally lacking?

St. Teresa of Avila always said, “God preserve me from sour faced saints.” She was referring a movement that was very common in her time. There were Catholics who called themselves the Illuminati. They believed that they were all that and a bag of chips. But they were the most sour people. Whenever they spoke to others who were struggling with their faith, they did not inspire. Instead, they made people feel worse. Teresa, on the other hand, had a wonderful sense of humor. When she met someone who struggled with his or her faith, she would laugh. She was known for pointing out the ridiculous in our shortcomings. The key here is to notice how she found the common shortcomings between her and those whom she was trying to help. Equally important is how she played it down with humor, helping the other person realize that nothing was impossible. When people struggled with their faith or did something wrong, she would insist that they try again. She never said that they were wrong. Her favorite expression was, “You can do better than that?”

My last example from her was when it came to talking about her faith and why she did or did not do certain things. She often gave the same answer. “Why are you asking me? I have no idea why God does this. I just follow along.” She never tried to tell people why she did what she did. She always pointed to what God did and then said that she had no idea why he did it.

Her humor, her encouragement of others to do better, and her humility that it was God who did it, not her, disarmed people. You can’t debate with a person like that. They are not placing themselves as your teacher, but as your equal.

The debates will decrease when we learn to share rather than teach. The word “teach” as Jesus used it in the Gospel and as we use it today is very different. If you want to understand what Jesus means when he said, “Go out and teach all nations” take a close look at the role of the Rabbi. Rabbi, as we know, means teacher. Rabbis were not authoritarian teachers. They were very unassuming. We have taken the command to teach and have become authoritarian. That triggers a negative reaction in others.

I truly believe that men and women like Francis of Assisi, Teresa of Avila, Don Bosco, Mother Teresa were loved because they were non threatening. They were funny. They were gentle. They admitted their own faults before pointing to those in others. Most importantly, they knew that nothing was impossible for God. Conversion of others did not depend on them. All they had to do was to be present so that others could see the Christian life in practice. They pushed themselves, not others. They were very visually oriented.

They are great models for us today, because we live in a world where a whole generation is visual. It’s not a generation that is oriented toward words, but toward images. We can avoid arguments if we learn to paint pictures with our words.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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I apologize totally unrelated to your post, but what is the best book you recommend on St. Francis of Assisi that I could pick up at some place like Barnes and Noble? Thanks.
 
notredame_999 said:
I apologize totally unrelated to your post, but what is the best book you recommend on St. Francis of Assisi that I could pick up at some place like Barnes and Noble? Thanks.
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St. Francis of Assisi by G.K. Chesterton

It’s not quite biographical. Chesterton gets into Francis’ personality. But he does a very good job. Much of what he says about Francis’ personality coincides with what the early friars handed down through oral tradition.

St. Francis of Assisi: A Briography by Olmer Englebert

Well written biography. He takes the official biography written by Bonaventure and rewrites it in modern language. He takes out the flowery language of Bonaventure’s time, which can cause diabetes if you’re not careful. 😃 He rewrites the exact same story as Bonaventure wrote, but it flows like a novel. Bonaventure’s version is like one long poem.

St. Francis by St. Bonaventure

Very well written. Very difficult to read. It was written in 13the century Latin (very bad Latin). Classical Latin is nicer. The language is too sacharin, as I said. It was translated into Victorian English. Some people (such as me) don’t enjoy reading Victorian English. I read the Spanish translation and enjoyed it more. The Spanish and the Latin go better. If you like Victorian English, go for it. Bonaventure is every theological. He gets into Franciscan theology. He breaks down the meaning of everything that Francis did and said. It’s a must read for any serious Franciscan scholar.

Little Flowers of St. Francis by Author unknown

A wonderful collection of anecdotes about Francis. We have no idea how many are true. However, they are very important, because they were written by his first followers. The warmth with which they write about him tell you a great deal about the man. No one would write with such warmth about a man who did not evoke such devotion and love from his followers.

I hope that helps.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
To return to the original topic:

The landscape is littered with dead horses.
 
Yes. I have found it difficult to be interested in the discussions here lately.
 
The biggest thing that is bringing me down here at CAF is the lack of use by users of the search feature. So that the same topics keep coming up month after month. That gets old pretty fast.

I also do not like it when someone states something as fact and Church Teaching but fails to cite any Church document to prove their opinion and then when confronted with an actual Church document they ignore it and keep on with their opinion.

Such as stated earlier in this thread by a user on confession. There is actual Canon Law that states where the Sacrament is to be celebrated. If one is upset by abuses in the Mass why then is it ok to have abuses in the other Sacraments?

I think Lent will be a good time to take a huge break from CAF.
 
I ditto what has been said, but I also keep insisting in what I posted not too far above. You must have a sense of humor and you must treat people well.

There is too much intensity on the threads. One can discuss a serious issue without the intensity. You don’t have to get angry because someone disagrees or insinuate that someone is less orthodox or less Catholic because they disagree. That just adds a level of intensity that triggers a debate and then it becomes an issue of you said this about me and I said that about you.

People need to take the time to cool down before responding to something that annoys them. When you do cool down, you can respond without fighting.

The search feature is a very helpful thing and people should use it. But people should read what has been discussed in the past before going forward.

I had a chuckle once. I can’t recall the name of the two thread, so I’ll make them up.

Month one: CITH vs COTT

That thread was closed for whatever reason. Maybe the moderator thought it needed a rest or something.

Month two: How do you receive communion?

I thought to myself, “This is the same thread that was closed three weeks ago, in a different shade.” It made me chuckle. It reminded me of when I was a kid. Would ask my mother the same thing over and over, just rewording the request, hoping to get the answer I wanted. Eventually, she caught on and I got into trouble for perseverating.

The same people end up answering questions that they answered before. The person could have gone back and read those answers.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I think they could improve on the search feature, though. I have used it for subjects I know are already covered but get threads/discussions totally different from what I am searching for (i.e. “how to read the bible” or just type in “bible” and see what you get).

People who know me on here know I get frustrated and a little out of hand (I try to delete those posts :o) because of most of what we are discussing on this thread but I will say it is teaching me humility. :o

I like the dead horse post, baltobetsy. :rotfl:
 
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