Every religion in the world is convinced they are right, what sets us apart?

[kremisos]

Magicsilence:

Religion means faith in God, if you think faith in God is a security blanket to go about sinning, then you are very confused, like this little smiley -

Those who have faith in God will not desire to sin, in fact it will be the most repulsive act imaginable, upsetting the very being that they worship.

You have some very skewed ideas about religion and our faith in general.

I know quite a bit about the Catholic religion. I was raised Catholic. Also religion is not faith in God. Religion is faith in rituals, doctrines, and dogma. Faith in God is knowing without question or doubt that he exists, and that his Spirit is in you. With faith you need no instruction or guidance, because God himself through the Spirit is your teacher and counselour. Those who have faith live by the Spirit and of course have no desire to sin. So they don’t, and of course do not require a man to hear their confessions. Those who live by the sinful nature, do not live in accordance with the Spirit and do not know God or have faith.

Magicsilence:

Also, Christ is pretty clear that perfection comes from within the mind, God does not judge our outward appearances.

What does this have to do with anything? I made no mention of anything regarding outward appearances. I’m only suggesting that the love of wealth is evil. The reason most rich men will have no place in heaven is because they love wealth, wordly things, and prefer to have a heaven for themselves here while other people in the world suffer. They trust in money rather than God.

 

[kremisos]

My edit button seems to have disappeared…

 

[Catilieth]

Religion is a values system and does not need church, ritual,etc.to be a religion. Religion in its most basic definition is faith in something.
Secular humanisn is a religion.
Not needing anyone to tell you what to believe or telling you what is right and wrong…sounds too much like playing God. All on your own you decide, based on what you think, what is good and evil? How do you know??

 

[Ignatius]

Magicsilence:

As above, every religion has a number of proofs that they are correct, each deny every other religion, and each are convinced that they are the one true religion.

How are we any different from the rest of the world religions.

We trace the Church back through the ages to the Apostles.

Catholic Popes (Pontiffs)
,
,Reigned,
Name,Birthplace,From,To
St. Peter,Bethsaida,42?, 67?
St. Linus,Tuscia,67,76
St. Anacletus (Cletus),Rome,76,88
St. Clement,Rome,88,97
St. Evaristus,Greece,97,105
St. Alexander I,Rome,105,115
St. Sixtus I,Rome,115,125
St. Telesphorus,Greece,125,136
St. Hyginus,Greece,136,140
St. Pius I,Aquileia,140,155
St. Anicetus,Syria,155,166
St. Soter,Campania,166,175
St. Eleutherius,Epirus,175,189
St. Victor I,Africa,189,199
St. Zephyrinus,Rome,199,217
St. Callistus I,Rome,217,222
St. Urban I,Rome,222,230
St. Pontian,Rome,230,235
St. Anterus,Greece,235,236
St. Fabian,Rome,236,250
St. Cornelius,Rome,251,253
St. Lucius I,Rome,253,254
St. Stephen I,Rome,254,257
St. Sixtus II,Greece,257,258
St. Dionysius,Unknown,259,268
St. Felix I,Rome,269,274
St. Eutychian,Luni,275,283
St. Caius,Dalmatia,283,296
St. Marcellinus,Rome,296,304
St. Marcellus I,Rome,308,309
St. Eusebius,Greece,3091,3091
St. Meltiades,Africa,311,314
St. Sylvester I,Rome,314,335
St. Marcus,Rome,336,336
St. Julius I,Rome,337,352
Liberius,Rome,352,366
St. Damasus I,Spain,366,384
St. Siricius,Rome,384,399
St. Anastasius I,Rome,399,401
St. Innocent I,Albano,401,417
St. Zozimus,Greece,417,418
St. Boniface I,Rome,418,422
St. Celestine I,Campania,422,432
St. Sixtus III,Rome,432,440
St. Leo I (the Great),Tuscany,440,461
St. Hilary,Sardinia,461,468
St. Simplicius,Tivoli,468,483
St. Felix III (II)2,Rome,483,492
St. Gelasius I,Africa,492,496
Anastasius II,Rome,496,498
St. Symmachus,Sardinia,498,514
St. Hormisdas,Frosinone,514,523
St. John I,Tuscany,523,526
St. Felix IV (III),Samnium,526,530
Boniface II,Rome,530,532
John II,Rome,533,535
St. Agapitus I,Rome,535,536
St. Silverius,Campania,536,537
Vigilius,Rome,537,555
Pelagius I,Rome,556,561
John III,Rome,561,574
Benedict I,Rome,575,579
Pelagius II,Rome,579,590
St. Gregory I (the Great),Rome,590,604
Sabinianus,Tuscany,604,606
Boniface III,Rome,607,607
St. Boniface IV,Marsi,608,615
St. Deusdedit (Adeodatus I),Rome,615,618
Boniface V,Naples,619,625
Honorius I,Campania,625,638
Severinus,Rome,640,640
John IV,Dalmatia,640,642
Theodore I,Greece,642,649
St. Martin I,Todi,649,655
St. Eugene I3,Rome,654,657
St. Vitalian,Segni,657,672
Adeodatus II,Rome,672,676
Donus,Rome,676,678
St. Agatho,Sicily,678,681
St. Leo II,Sicily,682,683
St. Benedict II,Rome,684,685
John V,Syria,685,686
Conon,Unknown,686,687
St. Sergius I,Syria,687,701
John VI,Greece,701,705
John VII,Greece,705,707
Sisinnius,Syria,708,708
Constantine,Syria,708,715
St. Gregory II,Rome,715,731
St. Gregory III,Syria,731,741
St. Zachary,Greece,741,752
Stephen II (III)4,Rome,752,757
St. Paul I,Rome,757,767
Stephen III (IV),Sicily,768,772
Adrian I,Rome,772,795
St. Leo III,Rome,795,816
Stephen IV (V),Rome,816,817
St. Paschal I,Rome,817,824
Eugene II,Rome,824,827
Valentine,Rome,827,827
Gregory IV,Rome,827,844
Sergius II,Rome,844,847
St. Leo IV,Rome,847,855
Benedict III,Rome,855,858
St. Nicholas I (the Great),Rome,858,867
Adrian II,Rome,867,872
John VIII,Rome,872,882
Marinus I,Gallese,882,884
St. Adrian III,Rome,884,885
Stephen V (VI),Rome,885,891
Formosus,Portus,891,896
Boniface VI,Rome,896,896
Stephen VI (VII),Rome,896,897
Romanus,Gallese,897,897
Theodore II,Rome,897,897
John IX,Tivoli,898,900
Benedict IV,Rome,900,903
Leo V,Ardea,903,903
Sergius III,Rome,904,911
Anastasius III,Rome,911,913
Landus,Sabina,913,914
John X,Tossignano,914,928
Leo VI,Rome,928,928
Stephen VII (VIII),Rome,928,931
John XI,Rome,931,935
Leo VII,Rome,936,939
Stephen VIII (IX),Rome,939,942
Marinus II,Rome,942,946
Agapitus II,Rome,946,955
John XII,Tusculum,955,964
Leo VIII5,Rome,963,965
Benedict V5,Rome,964,966
John XIII,Rome,965,972
Benedict VI,Rome,973,974
Benedict VII,Rome,974,983
John XIV,Pavia,983,984
John XV,Rome,985,996
Gregory V,Saxony,996,999

(Continued next post)

 

[Ignatius]

(continued)

Sylvester II,Auvergne,999,1003
John XVII,Rome,1003,1003
John XVIII,Rome,1004,1009
Sergius IV,Rome,1009,1012
Benedict VIII,Tusculum,1012,1024
John XIX,Tusculum,1024,1032
Benedict IX6,Tusculum,1032,1044
Sylvester III,Rome,1045,1045
Benedict IX (2nd time),Tusculum,1045,1045
Gregory VI,Rome,1045,1046
Clement II,Saxony,1046,1047
Benedict IX (3rd time),Tusculum,1047,1048
Damasus II,Bavaria,1048,1048
St. Leo IX,Alsace,1049,1054
Victor II,Germany,1055,1057
Stephen IX (X),Lorraine,1057,1058
Nicholas II,Burgundy,1059,1061
Alexander II,Milan,1061,1073
St. Gregory VII,Tuscany,1073,1085
Bl. Victor III,Benevento,1086,1087
Bl. Urban II,France,1088,1099
Paschal II,Ravenna,1099,1118
Gelasius II,Gaeta,1118,1119
Callistus II,Burgundy,1119,1124
Honorius II,Flagnano,1124,1130
Innocent II,Rome,1130,1143
Celestine II,Città di Castello,1143,1144
Lucius II,Bologna,1144,1145
Bl. Eugene III,Pisa,1145,1153
Anastasius IV,Rome,1153,1154
Adrian IV,England,1154,1159
Alexander III,Siena,1159,1181
Lucius III,Lucca,1181,1185
Urban III,Milan,1185,1187
Gregory VIII,Benevento,1187,1187
Clement III,Rome,1187,1191
Celestine III,Rome,1191,1198
Innocent III,Anagni,1198,1216
Honorius III,Rome,1216,1227
Gregory IX,Anagni,1227,1241
Celestine IV,Milan,1241,1241
Innocent IV,Genoa,1243,1254
Alexander IV,Anagni,1254,1261
Urban IV,Troyes,1261,1264
Clement IV,France,1265,1268
Bl. Gregory X,Piacenza,1271,1276
Bl. Innocent V,Savoy,1276,1276
Adrian V,Genoa,1276,1276
John XXI7,Portugal,1276,1277
Nicholas III,Rome,1277,1280
Martin IV8,France,1281,1285
Honorius IV,Rome,1285,1287
Nicholas IV,Ascoli,1288,1292
St. Celestine V,Isernia,1294,1294
Boniface VIII,Anagni,1294,1303
Bl. Benedict XI,Treviso,1303,1304
Clement V,France,1305,1314
John XXII,Cahors,1316,1334
Benedict XII,France,1334,1342
Clement VI,France,1342,1352
Innocent VI,France,1352,1362
Bl. Urban V,France,1362,1370
Gregory XI,France,1370,1378
Urban VI,Naples,1378,1389
Boniface IX,Naples,1389,1404
Innocent VII,Sulmona,1404,1406
Gregory XII,Venice,1406,1415
Martin V,Rome,1417,1431
Eugene IV,Venice,1431,1447
Nicholas V,Sarzana,1447,1455
Callistus III,Jativa,1455,1458
Pius II,Siena,1458,1464
Paul II,Venice,1464,1471
Sixtus IV,Savona,1471,1484
Innocent VIII,Genoa,1484,1492
Alexander VI,Jativa,1492,1503
Pius III,Siena,1503,1503
Julius II,Savona,1503,1513
Leo X,Florence,1513,1521
Adrian VI,Utrecht,1522,1523
Clement VII,Florence,1523,1534
Paul III,Rome,1534,1549
Julius III,Rome,1550,1555
Marcellus II,Montepulciano,1555,1555
Paul IV,Naples,1555,1559
Pius IV,Milan,1559,1565
St. Pius V,Bosco,1566,1572
Gregory XIII,Bologna,1572,1585
Sixtus V,Grottammare,1585,1590
Urban VII,Rome,1590,1590
Gregory XIV,Cremona,1590,1591
Innocent IX,Bologna,1591,1591
Clement VIII,Florence,1592,1605
Leo XI,Florence,1605,1605
Paul V,Rome,1605,1621
Gregory XV,Bologna,1621,1623
Urban VIII,Florence,1623,1644
Innocent X,Rome,1644,1655
Alexander VII,Siena,1655,1667
Clement IX,Pistoia,1667,1669
Clement X,Rome,1670,1676
Bl. Innocent XI,Como,1676,1689
Alexander VIII,Venice,1689,1691
Innocent XII,Spinazzola,1691,1700
Clement XI,Urbino,1700,1721
Innocent XIII,Rome,1721,1724
Benedict XIII,Gravina,1724,1730
Clement XII,Florence,1730,1740
Benedict XIV,Bologna,1740,1758
Clement XIII,Venice,1758,1769
Clement XIV,Rimini,1769,1774
Pius VI,Cesena,1775,1799
Pius VII,Cesena,1800,1823
Leo XII,Genga,1823,1829
Pius VIII,Cingoli,1829,1830
Gregory XVI,Belluno,1831,1846
Pius IX,Senegallia,1846,1878
Leo XIII,Carpineto,1878,1903
St. Pius X,Riese,1903,1914
Benedict XV,Genoa,1914,1922
Pius XI,Desio,1922,1939
Pius XII,Rome,1939,1958
John XXIII,Sotto il Monte,1958,1963
Paul VI,Concesio,1963,1978
John Paul I,Forno di Canale,1978,1978
John Paul II,“Wadowice, Poland”,1978,2005
Benedict XIV,“Burn, Germany”,2005,

The first list was compiled by Irenaeus, I believe in the 2nd century. You might also read “The History of the Church” written by Eusibious in the 300’s A.D.

 

[LSK]

Magicsilence:

As above, every religion has a number of proofs that they are correct, each deny every other religion, and each are convinced that they are the one true religion.

How are we any different from the rest of the world religions.

On a side note, if everyone in the world is convinced that their religion is correct, how can anyone go to hell?

2 thousand years of Sacred Tradition, history and Holy Scripture…oh, and consistency of doctrine and dogma.

 

[Lazerlike42]

I think also the way that the Old Testament and ancient Jewish culture flows so perfectly into the New Testament and modern Catholicism (and some Protestantism) is a great testament to the truth.

It’s just amazing that people believed these things thousands of years ago which really don’t make much sense, and yet when we get the full we realize that they not only made sense, but perfect and profound sense. It’s inconceivable to me that men could have created such a perfect falsehood of a the way things are with so many thousands of amazing and profound nuances that are so subtle they are still being discovered today yet are so profound that they answer nearly perfectly the question of who we are and why we’re here. Many of history’s greatest thinkers, like the great philosophers, spent thousands of years trying to figure out truth, and build up from the ground a systematic description of it. No matter how hard they tried, the GREATEST minds we’ve ever had still devised ideas full of flaws and holes, ideas that contradicted themselves as well as other ideas.

Then comes along Catholicism with such a an amazing and astonishing harmony, a beautiful and perfect harmony, both with itself and with Judaism, which was its seed, a harmony filled with nuance and subtlety that is just as astounding and meaningful as the huge aspects of it.

Especially if there is some other truth somewhere, or some other god, for men to be able to falsify truth so well given the existence of real truth and a real god would be even more inconceivable, even impossible, especially since most other religions also teach to some extent about the inferiority of man compared to god. Something so inferior could not produce something so superior, some falsehood that holds up to the staunchest objections even when the truth cannot.

That’s my take.

 

[kremisos]

Catilieth:

Religion is a values system and does not need church, ritual,etc.to be a religion. Religion in its most basic definition is faith in something.
Secular humanisn is a religion.
Not needing anyone to tell you what to believe or telling you what is right and wrong…sounds too much like playing God. All on your own you decide, based on what you think, what is good and evil? How do you know??

If you live by the Spirit and the Word of God you do know without question. Otherwise, you’d be assuming that the Spirit lies to men, and that is impossible.

Ignatius:

We trace the Church back through the ages to the Apostles.

Of course tracing an organization back to the apostles leaves no room for human error (line removed by moderator)?

LSK:

2 thousand years of Sacred Tradition, history and Holy Scripture…oh, and consistency of doctrine and dogma.

I think your idea of consistency and the rest of the world’s might be slightly different. I don’t think Paul or Peter would’ve taught the world that there are lesser sins that will not condemn a man to death. I also don’t think they would’ve taught men that sin offerings (such as confession), can be made. No man has the authority to grant God’s forgiveness. Christ died so that sins might be forgiven, and men could live by the Spirit rather than the sinful nature that the Law condemned us to.

Without law, sin does not exist, but under the old Covenant we were condemned by the Law to a sinful nature. God’s sacrifice of his Son, our messiah, was to not only redeem us but to free us from the sinful nature so that we might live by the Spirit rather than by the Law. We were baptized into the death of Christ, and are therefore dead to sin. If we still choose to sin, we defy the Spirit, and live according to the sinful nature. In doing so, we put the guilt of Christ’s blood, and the fury of God upon ourselves.

If a man is to have salvation, he must make a decision to remain faithful to God and stray from sin always. Always does not mean part of the time, on Sundays, or as often as he feels is necessary. His entire life should be devoted to living by the Spirit and acting accordingly through charity and good will. Everything he does in life should be in thanksgiving and to the glory of God.

 

[kremisos]

Catilieth:

Religion is a values system and does not need church, ritual,etc.to be a religion. Religion in its most basic definition is faith in something.
Secular humanisn is a religion.
Not needing anyone to tell you what to believe or telling you what is right and wrong…sounds too much like playing God. All on your own you decide, based on what you think, what is good and evil? How do you know??

---

MT 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

---

If you live by the Spirit you will not only know what is good and what is bad, but you will know a good teacher from a bad one.

God is not a textbook God to be understood and taught by wordly men. If your instructor is man and not God, you should not teach. Any man who is not confident that God is with him in his daily life, should not utter a word of instruction to anyone, because by his words and actions he will be judged. If he has been the cause of one man, woman, or child to turn away from God because of his teaching in the Churches, he will be guilty of this crime. By our perspective we may not see one man as significant or valuable, but one soul to God has a value greater than our human minds could possibly understand without the Spirit.

 

[Catilieth]

Kremisos,
Then explain how so many people who are convinced that they are godly, who in earnest seek the truth, come up with such opposite conclusions. I’m speaking of earnest men. They are all convinced that the Spirit has spoken to them, they are all certain that in their hearts they love the one God, they have all the best intentions, yet they come to entirely different conclusion…unless of course, you have the personal ability to discern spirits. Many people have listened to the spirit, in good faith, and have been deceived either by their own weaknesses or by the Deceiver himself. Those that are the most sure of themselves are usually the ones most deceived.

“Do only what is good” sounds beautiful…but how do you discern what that good is…for example, is contraception good??
How do YOU decide…whatever feels right?, by whatever *you * decide scripture says? do you say a prayer and whatever answer pops in your head is the truth?

“If your instructor is man and not God, you should not teach.”
If men are not to intruct others, then why did God tell the apostles to “teach” others about Jesus…why did the apostles appoint deacons to see to the daily affairs of the early church (distributing food and alms, for example) because their task of teaching was more important. How did the Gospel get handed down for 4 centuries without a Bible if it was not taught by men?

 

[AquinasXVI]

Magicsilence:

What sets us apart?

We have a God that knows the way out of the grave.
-GKC

in XT

 

[kremisos]

Catilieth:

Kremisos,
Then explain how so many people who are convinced that they are godly, who in earnest seek the truth, come up with such opposite conclusions. I’m speaking of earnest men. They are all convinced that the Spirit has spoken to them, they are all certain that in their hearts they love the one God, they have all the best intentions, yet they come to entirely different conclusion…unless of course, you have the personal ability to discern spirits. Many people have listened to the spirit, in good faith, and have been deceived either by their own weaknesses or by the Deceiver himself. Those that are the most sure of themselves are usually the ones most deceived.

“Do only what is good” sounds beautiful…but how do you discern what that good is…for example, is contraception good??
How do YOU decide…whatever feels right?, by whatever *you * decide scripture says? do you say a prayer and whatever answer pops in your head is the truth?

“If your instructor is man and not God, you should not teach.”
If men are not to intruct others, then why did God tell the apostles to “teach” others about Jesus…why did the apostles appoint deacons to see to the daily affairs of the early church (distributing food and alms, for example) because their task of teaching was more important. How did the Gospel get handed down for 4 centuries without a Bible if it was not taught by men?

Do you think scripture being handed down is necessary?
*
**8 But God found fault with the people and said:

"The time is coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.

HEB 8:9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.

HEB 8:10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

HEB 8:11 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, `Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.***

Christ himself and the apostles did not instruct men of faith. Why? Do those who know God need instruction?
*
**HEB 13:6 So we say with confidence,

“The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid.
What can man do to me?”***

and again:

---

HEB 10:35 So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. 36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37 For in just a very little while,

"He who is coming will come and will not delay.

HEB 10:38 But my righteous one will live by faith.

And if he shrinks back,
I will not be pleased with him."***

Your argument about people being sure of themselves holds no water. I am not confident of myself, because I do not trust myself. I trust my teacher who is not flesh, and I put full confidence in him. Knowing this, I can boast of him and his power. I can be sure that he is good, and that all good things come from him. I can be sure that what comes from me is evil without him, but with him everything that comes from me is good. So is this being sure of myself, or sure of him?

I think you’re missing the point here. You do now own your body, nor do you own your soul. If you have faith you belong to God, and nothing you do is of your own will but of God’s will. If you cannot do this, you have no faith, nor can you trust God completely. I trust God in all of my affrairs, and even in the face of death I have never feared. If it is God’s will, my life will end one day, and there is nothing I can do to change that, so why should I fear? I have faced death more times than most humans, and have in fact been dead at least clinically on more than one occassion. I have also had several attempts made on my life. If a cat has nine lives, than I have eighty-one. I have seen the light more than once, and since my first time, I still see it.

(continued…)

 

[kremisos]

I knew of God, before anyone told me there was a God. I have seen angels and demons in this lifetime. I have felt God with me my entire life, and nothing I say despite my little knowledge of the written Word, goes against the Word of God. I use written Word to defend my arguments, because it is written and you can cross reference what I say. Having a search function is a beautiful thing, but even if I open a Bible and flip to a random page, the Spirit takes me exactly where I want to go, and I have proven this to many people. Am I boasting of myself or of the power of God? You can discount everything that I say here if you’d like, but it will get you nowhere. Nothing I have said goes against what is written, so arguments are not even valid. If I speak of my own flesh, then maybe you could contest me, but I do not.

So why do I not sugar coat everything as a priest or televangelist would to be more agreeable to people? The word of God is not to be sugarcoated. This is real life, and this life is almost over. You can heed my warnings and look into them for yourself, or you can dismiss them. That choice is yours. I do not speak or type because I like the sound of my own voice or because I like my own written word, as a soothsayer does. I do not promise you peace and happiness. I promise you anguish and death. You are here for one purpose, and that is to serve God, no matter who you are. This should be your everyday reflection.

If I have somehow failed God, that is between me and him, but it is my responsibility to pass on what I know of him. Should I silence myself and sugarcoat things so that no one finds me offensive? I am not here to make people feel wonderful about themselves, nor am I the only one here with a message.

Many of us are imprisoned and drugged, because they could not live in a world bound by the laws of physics and wordly things. They could not separate the physical from the spiritual, and were therefore diagnosed with madness. Another good many of us are afraid of persecution.

I am used to such things, and will never lose hope that man will find God. If it costs me my life, his message will be heard. I do not fear the world or persecution, nor am I ashamed of what I have learned. If you are ashamed, Christ will be ashamed of you when he comes again. He will not die for our sins again, but he will condemn us for them. If you ask me to question my faith, you ask me to test God, which is something I will not do. I am confident in his message and in his plan. If you do not like the words that I express, I suggest you research their meaning for yourself.

I did not post on this topic to criticize the Catholic faith, although I do. I posted to warn all of you that if you do not draw near to God soon, you will lose not only this life, but the one to come.

 

[Petergee]

kremisos:

The Catholic Church did not write the Bible. They may have had a large influence in translating texts, but to say the Catholics produced it is more than a slight oversight. The Bible is a compilation of ancient texts written by God through man. You assumption that the Catholics made the Bible, would also suggest that the Catholics made the Jews and God himself.

Your massive ignorance of history is much more than an oversight. If you hate Catholics that much, don’t take a Catholic’s word for it, look up what neutral secular historians say: Catholic bishops and priests of the first century wrote every word of the New Testament. Catholic bishops of the 4th century decided which books would be included in both Old and New Testaments. They included each book only after carefully checking every word to make sure that they were consistent with the Catholic faith. They compiled the Bible as a group of approved books to be used for Catholic Masses and other liturgies. They would have been horrified to know that someone 1500 years later would come up with the idea of using personal private interpretations of Bible passages to lead people away from the Church.

 

[Lazerlike42]

lazerliek42.tripod.com/sola.htm

 

[Atreyu]

and nothing I say despite my little knowledge of the written Word, goes against the [written] Word of God.

Possibly, according to your own interpretation of the written Word of God. But how do you know that this is the entire Word of God? Look at John 21:25

Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

Now as for what you have said that in my opinion, goes against the written Word of God, check out John 17:

20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

Does your theology go against this passage? I would say yes. Well it doesn’t actually deny it, it just means that you think this prayer of Jesus has failed.

Now you might say that you interpret a certain passage in a different way to me, but who is to say that you are right and I am wrong? Who will the outside observer conclude to be correct?

 

[Catilieth]

Kremisos,
I am afraid that you are dancing with the devil and don’t even know it. The bible is not a slot machine, put in your finger and out come the answers.
Study a little history before you tell us where the bible comes from, you will be terribly surprised. Go to sources that have no dogs in the fight, and see what the truth is.
And the devils favorite costume is of an angel of light…few saints have ever had the gift of diserning spirits. That is very dangerous ground you are trodding.
You seem earnest in your search for God, keep looking (humbly, in earnest) and He will reveal himself, for he loves the meek and humble…but first get off your high horse. Ask God to enlighten you, humbling yourself by resolving to let go of any belief that you hold if that is God’s will. Then you will be on the right path.

 

[rjs1]

## Raising the dead - or raising the unconscious ? ##

Neither incorruption nor miracles prove anything - even if they are real, such things have still to be connected to God - and only God can make that connection. Apologists can’t. Because those things are phenomena, nothing more - their connection with God is the very thing needing to be shown, so this connection cannot be taken for granted.​

I think that is the basic reason for why the Orthodox are unimpressed by incorrupt bodies. as for “Eucharistic miracles”, they contradict the Church’s teaching about transubstantiation. I for one find them a temptation to disbelief. If something is known by faith to be true - what is the point of “proving” it ? Those without faith will not see a work of God, therefore they will not encouter that work as proof of God. Those with faith, need no proof.

“It is an evil generation that asks for a sign” - the only sign we need, or that was given, was “the sign of Jonah”: the Resurrection of Christ, which is as powerful today to transform lives as it was 1975 years ago. A transformed life, a life wholly ruled by the Spirit of Christ, is worth ten thousand incorrupt bodies.

If miracles have been worked in the CC, that is certainly nothing for which we can take the slightest credit; for the Church cannot boast of something which God has graciously seen fit to do in her midst, because she has, and is, and has done nothing to deserve the kindness of God, miraculous or otherwise. On the contrary: her own creation is a wonder of God’s creative Love. Miracles are so completely the work of God that their presence among Catholics, or their absense among others, means nothing at all. The real “miracle” is the ceaseless and faithful kindness of God in Christ ##

I am disagree with your approach to the issues of miracles and incorruption.

God graciously grants miracles to remind us of His presence and to help us in times of doubt and lack of faith. The incorruptibles are signs given us by God of the fact that a holy life is pleasing to a holy God.

The Eucharistic miracles do not deny the doctrine of transubstantiation because by definition they are miracles. That is, out of the ordinary, given for a special reason and at a special time and place. The reason the Orthodox don’t like them is they have had few, if any, of their own and their treatment of the Eucharist outside of mass time is contradictory, almost no recognition of the reality of Jesus’ real presence. A friend of mine, when visiting an Orthodox Church, was shown the Gospel by the priest, who made a big fuss about it and kissed it, but when the priest passed the place where the Blessed Sacramnet was reserved he simply made a brief comment “This is the Eucharist” and no reverence or fuss at all.

While we must not be gullible or ignore the fact that Satan himself can imitate miracles, nevertheless we should fall down in awe before genuine miracles because they are handprints of an Almighty God. To deny them is to deny the reality of God, to allow the secularists to win.

 

[kremisos]

Catilieth:

Kremisos,
I am afraid that you are dancing with the devil and don’t even know it. The bible is not a slot machine, put in your finger and out come the answers.
Study a little history before you tell us where the bible comes from, you will be terribly surprised. Go to sources that have no dogs in the fight, and see what the truth is.
And the devils favorite costume is of an angel of light…few saints have ever had the gift of diserning spirits. That is very dangerous ground you are trodding.
You seem earnest in your search for God, keep looking (humbly, in earnest) and He will reveal himself, for he loves the meek and humble…but first get off your high horse. Ask God to enlighten you, humbling yourself by resolving to let go of any belief that you hold if that is God’s will. Then you will be on the right path.

I think you’re a bit confuse. For one I am on no high horse, and for two I have no dance with the devil. I have no need to search for him who found me the day I was born. I am no better or worse than any other person, however there is a vast difference between discerning spirits and walking in faith with the Holy Spirit. I have studied the Bible enough to verify why I and everyone is born with the Holy Spirit. I also have studied enough to know why people refuse to let go of the world.

You may see me as arrogant, but that is not the case at all. I was born God’s slave, and will die God’s slave. What I say here is for your benefit as well as in his defense. I’m not suggesting that God needs defending, but rather suggesting that he is offended. The Catholic Church and many other churches as well have totally disregarded not only Christ’s purpose, but the New Covenant that he gave to us. Frankly, I find this upsetting, but don’t think that I claim righteousness.

What’s between me and God is simply between me and God. My claims are not judgments, but rather instructions from the almighty. If you don’t choose to see that, that is your choice. If you think that Christ was the last prophet and there haven’t been many since with spiritual gifts given from the Spirit that is also your choice. You can disregard the truth when it’s staring at your face as well, but this doesn’t change one simple fact. You don’t have much time to make this decision.

If I can save my soul by saving others, then that is my choice, whether or not you agree. That is the mission and purpose that was given to me by God himself. If you don’t believe that God intervenes through man, then your Bible means nothing to you, because it was written through man, and not by man.

Let me ask you a question though. What do I gain by posting that which I have posted? Have I come here looking for new friends? Have I come here for any other purpose but to relay a message? I benefit nothing by posting on here in a worldly sense, so our my motive wordly? Perhaps you should consider this next time you decide to judge me. I am a stranger in a land that has always been foreign to me. I do not expect the world to understnad me, but I do expect the same persecution I’ve had since I was a child. This was Christ’s warning to me when I was a child.

I am not here to befriend you. I am here to help you. Whether or not you choose to receive that help is up to you. Where friends are concerned, I have the only one I need and always have.

I think you will see that it is not me that is on a high horse here. You believe in the words of men so strongly that you judge me by the words of men. Perhaps you should open your eyes, because apparently all you can see is the world.

The only thing apostolic about the Catholic Church is lineage at best. The same Spirit that descended upon them, has descended upon every man, and has given them all different gifts. Among those are prophecy. I will say this though. My priesthood and ministry has no lineage with the apostles from a worldly perspective, but from a spiritual perspective I trust in it before I trust in the Catholic priesthood. You name one priest, cardinal, bishop, or pope who prophesied in the name of God in recent years, and I’ll rest my case. Until then my case is open and will remain open all of the days of my life. I promise you when Christ comes again, I will have saved more souls than the Catholics. That is my one boast that is of myself.

 

[cheddarsox]

rjs1:

God graciously grants miracles to remind us of His presence and to help us in times of doubt and lack of faith. The incorruptibles are signs given us by God of the fact that a holy life is pleasing to a holy God.

**I find this absurd. The divine has the entire universe there for you to see and experience, and it takes these few acts of weirdness to convince you of His presence? You ignore the universe and need parlor tricks? Face it, often ridiculous parlor tricks at that? **

While we must not be gullible or ignore the fact that Satan himself can imitate miracles, nevertheless we should fall down in awe before genuine miracles because they are handprints of an Almighty God. To deny them is to deny the reality of God, to allow the secularists to win.

It is all the handprint of the divine. Not just the miracles. When you pick and choose you are refusing to see the whole of what the divine is revealing to you.You yourself are denying the reality of “God” by your falling down for the tricks rather than for the magnificence that you are suspended in at every moment.What is keeping you from seeing and acknowledging the fullness of the divine?

cheddar