Every Road a Tollway

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Cygnus_X1

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More and more politicians on various levels will be licking their chops as more and more drivers here in the U.S. acquire EZPass or similar technology to pay tolls on roads. But these big spenders see charging people to drive ANYwhere as a way to add revenue.

Years ago, comedian Albert Brooks joked that a rock band could make millions just flying across the U.S. and charging anyone who saw their plane two dollars. Well, what’s happening with roads is coming way too close to what Brooks talked about.

Before I make this any more of a rant than I already have, let me post some links:

Former DC mayor, current DC council member, and known tax evader Marion Barry wants the Nation’s Capital to set up tollbooths at all crossings for those who commute into the District from Maryland or Virginia. Fortunately, Washington Times pundit Adrienne Washington sets Barry straight, as does Tom Knott.

Not much earlier, Mayor Michael Bloomberg wanted to institute an $8 commuter congestion fee for the “privilege” of driving into New York City. San Francisco is apparently considering doing the same.

And finally, convinced that there’s no feasible way to relieve congestion on a major road in my area despite all the taxes we already pay, a local commissioner thinks mandatory use of EZPass will pay the bill for everyone who comes through town.

First of all, those of you outside the U.S.: Are you automatically charged commuter taxes or tolls just to drive someplace, above and beyond any gas or other taxes? See, if DC had a commuter tax, it wouldn’t have much employment; I’d resign and work somewhere else before paying a commuter tax.

Second, do you agree that this is just a way for politicians like Barry and Bloomberg to just misplace more money?
 
These pols forget who paid for the roads in the first place. Once tax dollars have been expended, tolls should not be allowed. I know this is the FHWA policy and I think it is a good one.
When I lived in Oregon, a bridge was erected with a $1.00 toll and a promise that the toll would be removed when the bridge was paid for. In an amazing turn of events, it was removed (the toll, not the bridge).
 
and here’s the killer, all the toll roads are under construction or loaded with potholes and the freeways of other states are in amazingly great road condtions. Go figure:shrug:
 
They built a toll road near me. It is $1 to go about 14 miles if you go the full distance. But the way they have the toll booths if I go 9/10 of a mile from rt 30 to rt 136 it is still $1 as the booth is in between these two exits.:eek: So I have to take a three mile detour around the road to get home. Go figure.🤷

PA also wanted to lease our Turnpike to another country, sort of like the ports LOL. That was stopped. Now they want to turn public roads that cross the state into toll roads. Our state is run by the Democrats so it does not suprise me.:mad:
 
If all the funds for maintaining a road came solely from the tolls colected on that road, I think it would be fantastic. True costs would actually be recognized. Only those using and benefitting from it would pay; roads not making enough would, apparently, be unneeded and so could be closed; alternate modes of transportation would start to develop.

As to commuter taxes - Philadelphia had (and probably still has) a City Wage tax - taxes are paid on all wages earned in the city, regardless of residence. Philadelphia residents pay more.
 
KathleenElsie said:
They built a toll road near me. It is $1 to go about 14 miles if you go the full distance. But the way they have the toll booths if I go 9/10 of a mile from rt 30 to rt 136 it is still $1 as the booth is in between these two exits.:eek: So I have to take a three mile detour around the road to get home. Go figure.🤷

PA also wanted to lease our Turnpike to another country, sort of like the ports LOL. That was stopped. Now they want to turn public roads that cross the state into toll roads. Our state is run by the Democrats so it does not suprise me.:mad:
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Use to take that road from New Stanton upto US 22 all the time when I lived in Philadelphia and traveled to Murrysville.

Another place there are tolls are the bridges on the Deleware River in Philadelphia. They are, however, toll only going into PA. I am wondering if it is to keep NJ out or punish PA’ian for going to NJ. 🤷
 
ChrisR246 said:
If all the funds for maintaining a road came solely from the tolls colected on that road, I think it would be fantastic. True costs would actually be recognized. Only those using and benefitting from it would pay; roads not making enough would, apparently, be unneeded and so could be closed; alternate modes of transportation would start to develop.
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The first word of your post is the key word. Unfortunately, tolls are rarely used in this way. They usually become general revenue. They should be used initially to fund construction (as John28 mentioned…good job Oregon!) and/or to fund ongoing expenses. I agree with you that it would be fantastic!

Many states also have gas taxes. Again, if they were used to maintain roads, that would be fine with me. Unfortunately, I don’t think funds are separated that way. It is just another of the many tax revenues the states use.
 
WanderAimlessly said:
Another place there are tolls are the bridges on the Deleware River in Philadelphia. They are, however, toll only going into PA. I am wondering if it is to keep NJ out or punish PA’ian for going to NJ. 🤷
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'Cause people are more willing to pay to get *out *of NJ.😃
 
Practically every expressway in Northern Illinois outside Chicago is a toll road. Our governor wants to sell them to raise money. My question is, if a private company can operate them at a profit why can’t the state?
 
Lance said:
if a private company can operate them at a profit why can’t the state?
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I assume that’s a rhetorical question?

As much as I hate paying tolls, the fact is that they work, and the reason is that they apply some market forces to what was previously a socialist model. They raise the money needed to keep the roads repaired, and they reduce congestion by limiting demand to those who want or need to use the roads the most.
 
ChrisR246 said:
As to commuter taxes - Philadelphia had (and probably still has) a City Wage tax - taxes are paid on all wages earned in the city, regardless of residence. Philadelphia residents pay more.
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Which is why, as I understand it, all the businesses are on the north side of Rt. 1 at the city line. 😃
 
Lance said:
Practically every expressway in Northern Illinois outside Chicago is a toll road. Our governor wants to sell them to raise money. My question is, if a private company can operate them at a profit why can’t the state?
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I believe Virginia has the only privately owned toll road in the country right now, the Dulles Greenway that runs from Leesburg to Washington Dulles Airport.
 
Digitonomy said:
As much as I hate paying tolls, the fact is that they work, and the reason is that they apply some market forces to what was previously a socialist model. They raise the money needed to keep the roads repaired, and they reduce congestion by limiting demand to those who want or need to use the roads the most.
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If that was ALL the tolls did, I’d be right with you. But as we know, the examples of non-self-perpetuating tolls aren’t many, and they morph into merely another revenue stream. Hence, the concept of making as many roads toll as possible, as I mentioned in my OP.

Why is it government can’t ever do more with less . . . but we taxpayers always have to?
 
Cygnus_X1 said:
I believe Virginia has the only privately owned toll road in the country right now, the Dulles Greenway that runs from Leesburg to Washington Dulles Airport.
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There is one that I know of in Colorado…E-470. IIRC the story goes something like this:

Federal funds were available to complete this ring freeway, but the governor at the time said something to the effect of “if we build more freeways, more people will move here.” So, they didn’t and a private organization ended up doing it with a tollway to support the more people that moved there despite the governor’s brilliant logic.

Disclaimer - I don’t know if the story is true (sounds stupid and simplistic).
 
rlg94086 said:
There is one that I know of in Colorado…E-470. IIRC the story goes something like this:

Federal funds were available to complete this ring freeway, but the governor at the time said something to the effect of “if we build more freeways, more people will move here.” So, they didn’t and a private organization ended up doing it with a tollway to support the more people that moved there despite the governor’s brilliant logic.

Disclaimer - I don’t know if the story is true (sounds stupid and simplistic).
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A bit of a digression, but I like how Kathleen Madigan joked that Denver did a great job of putting the new airport . . . in Kansas. 😃
 
Cygnus_X1 said:
A bit of a digression, but I like how Kathleen Madigan joked that Denver did a great job of putting the new airport . . . in Kansas. 😃
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That’s what I always told people, when I lived there.

Interestingly enough I also heard that the reason they couldn’t expand the old airport was because of the hazards and clean-up required of the Rocky Mountain Arsenal just to the North of it…that would now be the Rocky Mountain Arsenal Wildlife Refuge. :confused: Too hazardous to pave it over, but perfect for wildlife. 🤷
 
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