Evidence for Design?

[reggieM]

One day I might meet a Catholic who has heard of the Holy Spirit, but obviously it’s not going to be today.

I don’t think that your argument is helped by casting insults on Catholics.

I know a Catholic on CAF who gave up reading the Bible after a couple of chapters of Genesis. Shame.

As above – I don’t find that to be a very attractive way to carry on the discussion.

 

[inocente]

Note the statement, addressed and directed to angels as well as to the heavenly hosts (saints):

Praise him, all his angels;
praise him, all his heavenly hosts.

It doesn’t say we below praise angels and the hosts, it says the angels and the hosts praise Him. I really can’t see what the lines have to do with “I didn’t know Protestants were allowed to speak to supernatural beings other than God”?

What effect do you think angels have on nature?

By all means enlighten me (tonyrey has prohibited me from talking about anything which he deems off-topic, so you’ll need to find an obvious connection to the OP).

 

[inocente]

I don’t think that your argument is helped by casting insults on Catholics.

The Catholic likened my saying that God lives within us to a deus ex machina, apparently not understanding my obvious reference to the Spirit.

As above – I don’t find that to be a very attractive way to carry on the discussion.

The truth isn’t always sweet and cuddly.

 

[inocente]

How would you prove or demonstrate that the physical law is perfect?

The law is expressed through simple mathematics. QED.

And, of course, it is exceptionally beautiful.

 

[tonyrey]

So which is it? I am waiting for a coherent answer.

Which is what?

If you think there is inconsistency the onus is on you to explain why…

 

[tonyrey]

Originally Posted by grannymh forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
Is God as the Designer limited by His design?

The question “Is God as the Designer limited by His design?” is not a rhetorical question.

It is a real question often asked on CAF in the old days. And just because there is a ban on evolution discussion, the real question of God’s creative powers does not go away. It still has to be answered in terms of Catholic doctrines.

The question–“Is God as the Designer limited by His design?” – goes straight to the heart of Catholic theology. It goes straight to the opening lines of the Nicene Creed as to what Catholics believe constitutes a “Creator”.

I may be wrong, but from what I am reading I am getting the weird impression that the “Intelligent Design” movement stops short of Catholic Doctrines.

Only if Intelligent Design is arbitrarily isolated from - and not seen in the context of - comprehensive Design. I have already explained how the teaching of Jesus implies and supports belief in Design.

Why select the physical aspect of reality as the sole exception?

 

[tonyrey]

Originally Posted by grannymh forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
Is God as the Designer limited by His design?

The question “Is God as the Designer limited by His design?” is not a rhetorical question.

It is a real question often asked on CAF in the old days. And just because there is a ban on evolution discussion, the real question of God’s creative powers does not go away. It still has to be answered in terms of Catholic doctrines.

The question–“Is God as the Designer limited by His design?” – goes straight to the heart of Catholic theology. It goes straight to the opening lines of the Nicene Creed as to what Catholics believe constitutes a “Creator”.

I may be wrong, but from what I am reading I am getting the weird impression that the “Intelligent Design” movement stops short of Catholic Doctrines.

Only if Intelligent Design is arbitrarily isolated from - and not seen in the context of - comprehensive Design. I have already explained how the teaching of Jesus implies and supports belief in Design. Why select the physical aspect of reality as the sole anomaly?

 

[LittleSoldier]

You design computer programs. You know it exists.

I don’t design computer programs. I don’t know it exists. Please do not tell me that I know something exists.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Personally, I wouldn’t draw conclusions from what a few people have said elsewhere and then bring them to this thread. We have over 1400 posts here so it might be best to just stay with what people have said here.

Please quote the forum rule that places a restriction on forum members so they are to discuss only what has been stated in the thread in which they are participating and to not post anything from any other threads. Please quote the forum rule that states we are not to draw conclusions from what a few people have said elsewhere. And please quote the forum rule that states that *you * have the authority to define the parameters under which I can post.

With all due respect, I am not interested in what you, personally, would do. I am not you and as far as I know I have not broken any forum rules and am free to post as I have posted and will continue to post. I am trying to be charitable and to treat you with respect. I hope you do the same.

Ok, it just seemed that you were upset about something that I cannot have reference to – some unnamed persons said things that you disagree with. You’ve repeated that above.

I have absolutely no idea as to what you are talking about.

 

[LittleSoldier]

1. Please explain how **every **natural disaster could be prevented without interfering with our ability to choose what to believe and how to live.

Natural disasters (what used to be referred to as “acts of God”) occur no matter how people live and choose what to believe. If God prevented every natural disaster it would have no effect on our ability to choose what to believe and how to live.

1. Do you believe God does **absolutely nothing **to prevent disasters and mitigate the suffering in the world?

I believe that God’s every action and inaction regarding disasters and suffering (and actually everything) is based on His love. What do you mean by “absolutely nothing?”

 

[LittleSoldier]

I don’t think that your argument is helped by casting insults on Catholics.

I’m Catholic and felt no insult.

As above – I don’t find that to be a very attractive way to carry on the discussion.

Hmmm…the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[tonyrey]

Natural disasters (what used to be referred to as “acts of God”) occur no matter how people live and choose what to believe.

True.

If God prevented every natural disaster it would have no effect on our ability to choose what to believe and how to live.

If God prevented every natural disaster we would not be aware that a benevolent power was protecting us - even though earthquakes and tsunamis occurred everywhere except inhabited areas?

I believe that God’s every action and inaction regarding disasters and suffering (and actually everything) is based on His love.

So do I!

What do you mean by "absolutely nothing?

That God **never **works miracles…

 

[LittleSoldier]

True.
If God prevented every natural disaster we would not be aware that a benevolent power was protecting us - even though earthquakes and tsunamis occurred everywhere except inhabited areas?

Wait - you said that God prevented **every **natural disaster and then you say that earthquakes and tsunamis occur everywhere except inhabited areas? So does God prevent every natural disaster or not?

That God **never **works miracles…

A natural disaster can be a miracle. And what can be a disaster to some (the Egyptians who were going after the Jews) can be a life-saver to others (the Jews who were escaping from the Egyptians).

But no matter. I am feeling a definite lack of charity in this thread (not from you) and I think I’m going to back out. My apologies to you and to others who have posted.

 

[tonyrey]

Wait - you said that God prevented **every **

 

[grannymh]

I have said all that I can in this thread. I am also leaving it.
If anyone has a question about my position, please PM me.

Blessings,
grannymh

“The shepherds sing; and shall I silent be?”
From the poem “Christmas” by George Herbert

 

[tonyrey]

I have said all that I can. I am also leaving this thread.

If anyone has a question about my position, please let me know a thread where we can have a discussion. Or PM me.

Blessings,
granny

“The shepherds sing; and shall I silent be?”
From the poem “Christmas” by George Herbert

I’m sure we’ll meet on another thread soon…

 

[grannymh]

I’m sure we’ll meet on another thread soon…

I doubt it.

I am in a specialized area regarding the Catholic doctrines surrounding the real, true, sole founders of humanity, Adam and Eve. In particular, I defend the Catholic doctrine of monogenism which is under attack off line.

Blessings,
grannymh

The human person is worthy of profound respect from the moment of conception.

 

[tonyrey]

I doubt it.

I am in a specialized area regarding the Catholic doctrines surrounding the real, true, sole founders of humanity, Adam and Eve. In particular, I defend the Catholic doctrine of monogenism which is under attack off line.

We shall see… There are other topics in which you are interested…

 

[LittleSoldier]

My precise word was “constantly” - which does not mean “always”…
True - but God is generally regarded as the loving Creator rather than the Destroyer.
Thank you for your valuable contributions. God bless you.

God bless you, too. We will meet up again.

 

[grannymh]

We shall see… There are other topics in which you are interested…

When it comes to a belief in the Catholic doctrine of two (Adam & Eve) sole parents of the human species (monogenism) – Divine Revelation trumps.