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Al_Moritz
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Evolution rocks.
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tonyrey
Guest
There is no need to bring a banned topic into the discussion. Disease, disasters and deformities are due to coincidences resulting from the interplay of the laws of nature. Misfortunes are inevitable in an immensely complex world.Nice jab.
Only Natural Evolution makes sense of the existence of disease and viruses. The ironic fact is that the theory of Evolution does a lot to answer the problem of natural evil. It works in the Christians Favour; not against us. No Point blaming it on the Devil. And I certainly don’t see how it can be reasonable to say that a loving God directly intended that people should get sexually transmitted diseases and deformities. However, it would make sense if for some reason God saw a greater good in creating a naturally evolving reality. In this case the negative effects are merely the unfortunate by-products of Natural-Evolution rather than the direct product of design.
In other-words, natural evolution is an essential part of my faith as a Christian; because I refuse to believe in a God that would directly intend and design disease, deformity, and physical suffering or a world where animals eat each-other to survive. Why would a loving creator do that? Natural Evolution has to be true; otherwise I refuse to believe in God.
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tonyrey
Guest
The boat is being rocked by those who which to see this thread closed. It would be ironic if they were banned and the thread remained alive!
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LittleSoldier
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Thank you, reggie. I’ll have to think about this for awhile. I like the quote. Unfortunately I never studied logic and everything I know about it has been learned while on this forum (and mostly consists of definitions and examples of logical fallacies). My lack of knowledge about logic is causing some problems with my understanding of various concepts.
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LittleSoldier
Guest
That has no bearing on the fact that it is a banned topic and should not be discussed. Didn’t we agree to follow forum rules when we became members? Everyone who has discussed evolution in this thread, including me, could now be banned.
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tonyrey
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I believe the reason is twofold:
- Evidence for Design is a very important topic in which the posts have been viewed more than 20,000 times
- The banned topic is brought up by a small minority who reject Design and do not wish to see it discussed because miracles in every century prove that divine intervention is far from being a rare occurrence
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Al_Moritz
Guest
So you think God cannot think ahead far enough to see all the consequences of the laws of nature that He created, and all the coincidences to which they lead? God is impotent to get it right in the first ‘try’? He needs to accept and repair His screw-ups?
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Al_Moritz
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Evolution still rocks.
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tonyrey
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All that you need to understand is that it is ludicrous to attribute the origin of such a highly complex and logical information system to the meanderings of purposeless processes.
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Al_Moritz
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What does ‘intervention’ for design have to with intervention for miracles?
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Al_Moritz
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Evolution is not purposeless if it is a process planned by God.All that you need to understand is that it is ludicrous to attribute the origin of such a highly complex and logical information system to the meanderings of purposeless processes.
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tonyrey
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tonyrey
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Without reference to the banned topic it suffices to point out that a universe planned by God does not exclude dysteleological side-effects. If it does then you must believe God is directly responsible for all the diseases, disasters and deformities in the world.
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tonyrey
Guest
The fact that God is a loving Father who constantly intervenes** in every way possible** to care for all His creatures and minimise their suffering.What does ‘intervention’ for design have to with intervention for miracles?
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tonyrey
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Not if you have been unwittingly led down the garden path!
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LittleSoldier
Guest
I agree that there is no need to bring a banned topic into the discussion, although I do wish we could discuss it.
I’m not so sure about why disease, disasters, and deformities exist. Someone told me that when Adam sinned the entire world was affected, from the dirt we walk on to the living organisms. That is why the lion does not lay down with the lamb. I don’t know if she is right - she may very well be. Evil is very pervasive and the Church teaches that any act of evil affects the entire world. It moves into all those little nooks and crannies and stays there, affecting us all.
I would like to start a new thread on a topic which has interested me for some time - what is a soul? Why do we have souls? Do animals have souls? Do plants have souls? What about rocks, clouds, lightning?
If human beings are the only creatures with souls, when was the soul placed into them? Did these now fully human beings mate with soul-less sub-human beings and produce offspring? Did their offspring have souls? There seems to be a gap in the history of human beings and this bothers me.
As for HIV, why did it appear? Was there a niche that opened up? Any open niche will be filled with something. What happened when smallpox was eradicated among the general population?
And as I am now looking at my Scottish fold cat, whose ancestry, along with every other Scottish fold cat in the world, can be traced back to one barn cat with a mutation, I wonder about other mutations and why most are not advantageous but some of them are (my fold’s inner ears are protected and he has never had an ear infection and does not accumulate debris inside his ears as my others cats do, yet he has an amazing sense of hearing) and how human beings can use advantageous mutations to help others. If that barn cat had not caught the eye of a visitor who decided to breed her and see what would happen she would have eventually died and her mutation would not have been carried on to an amazing number of cats all over the world. Folds are common cats now. And they all came from one little barn cat. I find that absolutely amazing.
I guess that all of the above could not be covered in one thread. But I find them all interesting and would like to discuss them with charity and respect for others’ views. I know I’m not the most charitable person in the world, although I do try, but it seems that threads on subjects such as I have mentioned above, get very nasty. And that is why we can no longer discuss evolution.
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tonyrey
Guest
A brilliant insight!
Development is the devolution of **power **by God to His creatures so that they become creative, autonomous and independent individuals…
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tonyrey
Guest
Evil is essentially negative. How could a physical world be devoid of an element of negativity. The very fact of finitude entails imperfection.
Please do so!
The element of chance within the framework of Design…
We are** not** discussing evolution but Design! If the thread becomes nasty I’m sure the moderators will intervene but there is no reason why nastiness should be inevitable. When emotion prevails it is a sign of irritation and inability to refute the points with which one disagrees…
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LittleSoldier
Guest
I had to look up “dysteleological” which led me to look up other words and terms. I’ve forgotten an awful lot of what I learned during my college years (and much of what I learned is no longer taught).Without reference to the banned topic it suffices to point out that a universe planned by God does not exclude dysteleological side-effects. If it does then you must believe God is directly responsible for all the diseases, disasters and deformities in the world.
Thank you (and others) for using terms which may appear to be abstruse on the surface. I’m learning a lot here (and remembering some of what I already learned but then forgot) and I am grateful for that.
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LittleSoldier
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I don’t think the moderators would take that into consideration, although they should.Not if you have been unwittingly led down the garden path!
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