Evidence that God Exists

[SOUNDTRUTH]

Not only do others exist, but the plans they have can not go forth successfully unless truth is destroyed.

A new World and a new Heaven can not exist unless the truth is destroyed such that there is no truth to hold the old World and the old Heaven together.

To do this, you have to make believers out of people, since belief and truth are not one in the same. Belief may point you towards truth, but unless you move from where you are now, you will NEVER get to that truth.

The one who wishes to protect the truth, is then set up to appear to be some evil character, an Anti-Christ, etc.

This ensures that no one will listen to him, and that no one will learn the truth.

Believers are stuck in a land of belief, and so when they read about such a negative character, and all the prophecies written about him, they, being stuck in the land of a fixated belief system, proceed to believe that which has been prophesied.

The believers therefore do not see that any being that has more intelligence than a mature cucumber, would also read these these prophecies and make the appropriate measures to prevent such an outcome. This of course includes the Satan character.

No, no, no.

It is all about burying the truth.

But you don’t believe this do you !

Of course not. How can a believer possibly see the truth !

Those who seek the truth, are not believers.

Because the truth seekers are at a minority,
Truth doesn’t stand a chance.

But at least me saying this takes me off the hook.

And not to forget, just about all religious believers believe that all of mankind are sinners, therefore to them it is OK or forgivable to be sinners.

Sinners are therefore not connected to truth, and so it is they who head off into the Heavens.

Therefore it is the truly innocent people of this world, the ones that the " Religious " folk " Believe " do not even exist, that end up in the screaming Hell, the place where truth is buried and burnt forever.

Yep, it is quite a plan indeed.



**What do you see ?

Do you see a Jesus on the Cross,
Two Heads confronting each other,
or do you see all three ?**

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

The Trinity can also be explained using the analogy of H20 - water. There is one substance, H20, that can be Ice, Water and Vapour. All three are completely seperate, but yet completely the same. All three are entirely H20. 3 states, but 1 substance.

Would you say that was some kind of contradiction? Of course not.

Are you enquiring out of genuine interest, or are you just ‘religion bashing?’

For that to work all H2O everywhere would have to Ice, Water, and Vapour at the same time. We also have to say that Ice = Water and Ice = Vapour, but Water does not = Vapour.

That is not true of water. And it is illogical. If it was really that simple, why would the Catholic Church call it a mystery?

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

This leads to the natural question, what are your beliefs as to the cause of and the explanation for everything, and how do your beliefs meet these tests of logic and evidence? It is not enough to tell us we are wrong. You must also tell us what is right.

I don’t know what the origin of everything is. That is just not something that is known yet. But to call that because I do not know the origin of everything somehow makes Christianity more likely does not follow.

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

Molecules that make up air can be shown to exist now. Do you agree that air existed before man even knew about molecules? Every person that has ever lived experienced air, whether they knew it or not. The scientific “knowing” doesn’t change the truth.

It seems like scientific discoveries are made almost every day. And yet, here you are questioning the “proof” for God, as if everything has already been discovered that will ever be discovered. IMO, one day ALL of us will have definitive proof of God’s existence. It will come the day we die.

That is just an assumption. Where is the evidence?

The only honest answer to the question of God is that we do not know, but there is not sufficient evidence to justify belief in God.

 

[TOP]

That is just an assumption. Where is the evidence?

The only honest answer to the question of God is that we do not know, but there is not sufficient evidence to justify belief in God.

Speak for your self. Tim

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

Ammonius

It seems that once you bring in critical analysis the only reasonable position is that we do not know if there is God and that we do not have evidence to justify the belief in the actual existence of God (much less a specific God).

On the other hand: by our intellects alone we do not know there is not a God, and we do not know whether if there is a God, God wants us to approach Him not merely with our intellects and senses, but with our whole being, which includes imagination, emotions, will, etc.

This is atheism’s failure of nerve … that it wants God to conform to evidence that is strictly intellectual … atheism hasn’t the courage to approach God and embrace God by every means possible.

Atheism is best represented in metaphor as a **flight **from Truth, rather than an embrace of it.

Repeating something I said before:

If you take away the intellect and a critical analysis of the evidence for the actual existence aren’t you just going to pick the the logically possible position that you desire to be true? If you are not going to look at the matter critically, don’t you have to say that the atheist, the Muslim, and the Catholic are all equally justified in their beliefs since that are all logically possible. Aren’t you endorsing a form of relativism in regard to the positions that individuals should find justified?

It seems that once you bring in critical analysis the only reasonable position is that we do not know if there is God and that we do not have evidence to justify the belief in the actual existence of God (much less a specific God).

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

Speak for your self. Tim

So present the evidence.

 

[water]

Repeating something I said before:

If you take away the intellect and a critical analysis of the evidence for the actual existence aren’t you just going to pick the the logically possible position that you desire to be true? If you are not going to look at the matter critically, don’t you have to say that the atheist, the Muslim, and the Catholic are all equally justified in their beliefs since that are all logically possible. Aren’t you endorsing a form of relativism in regard to the positions that individuals should find justified?

It seems that once you bring in critical analysis the only reasonable position is that we do not know if there is God and that we do not have evidence to justify the belief in the actual existence of God (much less a specific God).

with your logic, can you prove there is no God?

 

[JimO]

That is just an assumption. Where is the evidence?

The only honest answer to the question of God is that we do not know, but there is not sufficient evidence to justify belief in God.

I think it is hysterical that you continue demanding evidence and ignoring the posters, like myself, who have demonstrated how absurd your demand is given the limitations you place on what constitutes evidence.

As I said - a blind man demanding that we prove that light exists…

 

[TOP]

I would have to present my whole life and personal testimony, which you would not accept. I do accept my life as evidence though. So speak for youself about my beliefs. Tim

 

[JimO]

I would have to present my whole life and personal testimony, which you would not accept. I do accept my life as evidence though. So speak for youself about my beliefs. Tim

You are right, AS will accept no evidence. This is a common tactic of atheists - screaming the mantra “Show me evidence!!!” while ignoring all relevent discussions. When the thread was opened, I thought there would be a real discussion, but sadly, I was wrong. I’ve seen this tactic used over and over again. I’d ignore it.

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

I would have to present my whole life and personal testimony, which you would not accept. I do accept my life as evidence though. So speak for youself about my beliefs. Tim

How do your life experiences establish your position any more the Muslim’s life experiences establish his position or the life experiences of an atheist?

 

[TOP]

You are right, AS will accept no evidence. This is a common tactic of atheists - screaming the mantra “Show me evidence!!!” while ignoring all relevent discussions. When the thread was opened, I thought there would be a real discussion, but sadly, I was wrong. I’ve seen this tactic used over and over again. I’d ignore it.

It’s truely sad. I hope the Lord is merciful when He does reveal Himself to AS. Tim

 

[StacieAdy]

How does Augustine’s definition show the actual existence of God? Where is the evidence?

Perhaps you are looking for the “wrong” evidence.

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

You are right, AS will accept no evidence. This is a common tactic of atheists - screaming the mantra “Show me evidence!!!” while ignoring all relevent discussions. When the thread was opened, I thought there would be a real discussion, but sadly, I was wrong. I’ve seen this tactic used over and over again. I’d ignore it.

I would honestly would like to know how you are justifying a belief in God. Does it all come down to personal experiences? How are the personal experiences of a Catholic more valid than that of a Muslim or atheist? How do these experiences establish justification for belief in a specific position since these experieces support positions that mutually exclusive? Is truth relative to each individual having these experiences?

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

with your logic, can you prove there is no God?

No. That is why I have said:

“[O]nce you bring in critical analysis the only reasonable position is that we do not know if there is God and that we do not have evidence to justify the belief in the actual existence of God (much less a specific God).”

 

[Maranatha]

I would honestly would like to know how you are justifying a belief in God. Does it all come down to personal experiences? How are the personal experiences of a Catholic more valid than that of a Muslim or atheist? How do these experiences establish justification for belief in a specific position since these experieces support positions that mutually exclusive? Is truth relative to each individual having these experiences?

Philosophical proofs show that believe in a Deity is the most reasonable conclusion and imply that supernatural events can happen. Historical evidence supports the resurrection of Jesus. I choose to have faith in Jesus and believe what he said is true.

 

[JWilson]

I use to ask myself this question often and will tell you how I came to believe in God.For one, it takes more faith to believe in evolution than to believe in God the creator of everything.When looking at a new born baby,the vast expanse of open sea,a flower and so many other creations how could I possibly say there is no God?The second thing that convinces me that the Bible is the truth is by looking at how prophetic the Bible is.In just the last 10 years alone this world has gotten worse in leaps and bounds.People are becoming gripped with fear.Drugs,suicides,murders,abortions,rape,divorces,pornography, and so much more is increasing at such a rapid rate.In just the last few years the area I live has seen such an increase in violent crimes like never before.The weather here and across the world has performed some amazing disastrous results.It says in the Bible that earthquakes,hurricanes and natural disasters will be far more frequent in the end days.Will things improve?The answer is “No” and it will only get worse.It says in the Bible that all these things will get worse before Jesus returns.I hear so many people every day say how times have changed and this world is a much more dangerous place to live.Unfortunately there are still so many who don’t understand why it is this way other than contribute it to bad parenting and global warming.After saying this,you still don’t have to believe but keep watching as what the Bible prophecies will come true.No one knows the day of Jesus’ return but if you look at the way the world is going it doesn’t seem to distant.If you still decide to never believe that is up to you but you’ll certainly find out the truth after you’ve died.I pray that you’ll find God but you won’t unless you earnestly seek Him.

 

[Valke2]

But there is absolute truth, whether we can grasp it or not.

Ok. But if we can’t fully grasp it then it is impossible to say that any one set of beliefs is the one true way to God.

The religions of the world might agree on much, but there are certain “truths” held by them that are mutually exclusive such that somebody is wrong.

Perhaps. But since we may not know what the abosolute truth is, the fact that two “truths” contradict each other may not necessarily mean that one is right and one is wrong. If you are going to apply concepts, ideas, truths, to the infinite, you are bound to run up against contradiction and paradox. That is not a sign that one set of beliefs is wrong and one is right. It may be a sign that the finite cannot understand the infinite.

That would be awesome, but it might be wrong. The “many paths to God” idea would be great, but it might be wrong. All evidence in the Judeo-Christian tradition and in the Muslim world suggests that it is wrong.

Of course this might be wrong. THe belief in any afterlife might be wrong. I would happily agree that any belief about the Creator may be wrong. Of course, it is impossible, I think, to really embrace the idea that your belief system may be flawed and at the same time embrace the idea that your belief system is the only true way to God.

Look, frankly it’s no skin off my nose if someone doesn’t want to believe what I believe. I’m at a point in my life where I am secure in my faith and don’t need others to agree with me. If I’m wrong and we all go to heaven - great! If there is no afterlife, fine, I’m at peace with life and my choices. I don’t feel deprived of anything. But, if I’m right, then I am doing others a great disservice not telling them the Good News.

And if you’re wrong, you may be doing others a great disservice in telling them the Good News.

 

[JWilson]

A hope-so attitude of God’s existence is not based on faith and therefore leaves you with an uncertainty of where your going and and a false relationship with God.