Evil as a positive existent

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Because Jesus said that after there would be no tears and such.

That does not imply that pain is intrinsically bad, or suffering either. To assume so would be to say cars are intrinsically immoral because I don’t believe they will be in Heaven. Or fancy monocles, or anything anyone believes is not in Heaven.
 
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SalamKhan said:
The evil is the destruction they cause.
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They destroy cities, don’t they? And now you think they are not the Evil, but what they produce. A good thing produces the Evil.

Then we can reconstruct those places. And we can use some of the materials from the ruins.

Would you say that the Evil is disorder? Because destruction is disorder, isn’t it?
 
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Well of course, when it came to moral evils, I didn’t say that humans are intrinsically evil, rather their actions; but would that necessarily mean that evil is not a positive existent. The topic is why can’t God be considered the cause, if He created everything? And why would it compromise His goodness if He wills for evil to exist?
 
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One willing something and one allowing it is not the same thing.
I don’t want a child to burn his hand on the stove. But it let’s him learn to not put his hand on the stove.
Natural evil seems such a contradictory idea. Nature is not capable of moral judgements. Much of the natural disasters are simply matter of course given the laws of the Universe and how Earth is. They are likely vestiges from the Fall of Adam.
Think about it: we never say seriously that a cat is evil, even if it toys with its prey.
Why, then, would we ever say the same about the wind or the water?

The fall of Adam was a terrible event that brought us out of Paradise. But it, in turn, brought us the sweet Joy of Christ!
 
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Kei said:
Because Jesus said that after there would be no tears and such.

That does not imply that pain is intrinsically bad, or suffering either. To assume so would be to say cars are intrinsically immoral because I don’t believe they will be in Heaven. Or fancy monocles, or anything anyone believes is not in Heaven.
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So why there would be no pain after final judgment in Heaven? What is wrong with pain? Why people wouldn’t cry loudly for extreme pain in Heaven?
 
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SalamKhan said:
Well of course, when it came to moral evils, I didn’t say that humans are intrinsically evil, rather their actions. The topic is why can’t God be considered the cause, if He created everything? And why would it compromise His goodness if He wills for evil to exist?
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Surely you mean “some of their actions”. Are actions things, in your opinion?

If you analyze an action which you think is evil, you will find no evil in it. Is it evil because it is disordered within a certain context?
 
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STT said:
Given your definition then good also is a lesser degree of evil?
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No, we have a standard for good: good itself is the standard, that which we begin with. Evil is simply a detraction from that goodness. An eye that is partially blind is not as good as an eye that possesses full vision. That eye retains its perfection-and its ability to fulfill its purpose. We can’t add darkness to light, only the other way around, then we can remove degrees of light from the darkness. Perhaps of interest is the fact that the original Hebrew word for “nothing” in Genesis is “darkness”. All “beingness” has its own perfection and is good in itself. Evil is to take away from that being.
 
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God has full knowledge of everything, and autonomous power and will, if something were to occur outside of His power and will, would it not have to be autonomous in power and will also? But that is an impossibility for the same reason that a multiplicity of necessary beings (or polytheism) is impossible. If evil is non being, then how can we describe any action as a sin? Do we define sin, or does the creator of evil?
 
An action is evil when it has been defined to be a sin. But who defines this, us, or rather the creator of evil, who would have full knowledge of it?
 
Pain is evil, physical evil; that cannot be denied IMO. Augustine even said at one point that pain is the worst of all evils, although that probably needs to be understood in context.
 
fhansen said:
No, we have a standard for good: good itself is the standard, that which we begin with. Evil is simply a detraction from that goodness. An eye that is partially blind is not as good as an eye that possesses full vision. That eye retains its perfection-and its ability to fulfill its purpose. We can’t add darkness to light, only the other way around, then we can remove degrees of light from the darkness. Perhaps of interest is the fact that the original Hebrew word for “nothing” in Genesis is “darkness”. All “beingness” has its own perfection and is good in itself. Evil is to take away from that being.
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That is not really an argument. Evil itself is a standard too. A blind eye. It is something which exists.
 
SalamKhan said:
An action is evil when it has been defined to be a sin. But who defines this, us, or rather the creator of evil, who would have full knowledge of it?
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God’s nature is love. Anything inconsistent or opposed to love is evil. God doesn’t need to create evil to know it; being omniscient He knows the outcome of freewill when abused.
 
STT said:
That is not really an argument. Evil itself is a standard too. A blind eye. It is something which exists.
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It only exists or is identifiable in relation to sight.
 
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Nothing can occur outside of His Will and Power.
But, say, He doesn’t want you to sin. So, He allows a devil some power of temptation over you, but not enough to overpower you if you call on Him.
This is a way to make you stronger. We should be thankful to God when we are tempted or have great suffering, for it is a chance to grow in Holiness.

How do we define sin? Easy: that which offends God.
So, if God tells us to sanctify the Lord’s Day and keep it Holy, and we perfectly know that, but don’t anyway, then that would be sinful.
 
God grants the freedom to choose evil. The knowledge of good and evil was gained only in the fall from grace. It is defined as, and makes full sense, only as a privation.
 
SalamKhan said:
An action is evil when it has been defined to be a sin. But who defines this, us, or rather the creator of evil, who would have full knowledge of it?
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I think it doesn’t have to do with definitions (it seems to me that you, old Bahman and STT share the same ideas about definitions and language: you confuse them with reality). If you insult someone it is a bad action even if you didn’t know a definition.

And when you insult someone, do you think it was God who insulted, and not you?
 
Kei said:
Nothing can occur outside of His Will and Power.

But, say, He doesn’t want you to sin. So, He allows a devil some power of temptation over you, but not enough to overpower you if you call on Him.

This is a way to make you stronger. We should be thankful to God when we are tempted or have great suffering, for it is a chance to grow in Holiness.

How do we define sin? Easy: that which offends God.
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We are then in agreement. I believe that God has dominion over all things, and that nothing can occur outside of His power and will. The power and will of His creatures, including that of Satan who tempts humanity to evil, are derivative and not autonomous. I also believe that sin is disobedience towards God’s commands, which only He has the right to define and impose.
 
JuanFlorencio said:
And when you insult someone, do you think it was God who insulted, and not you?
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No, we are responsible for our actions, it does not mean I did this against God’s will, rather against His command.
 
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SalamKhan said:
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Kei:
Nothing can occur outside of His Will and Power.

But, say, He doesn’t want you to sin. So, He allows a devil some power of temptation over you, but not enough to overpower you if you call on Him.

This is a way to make you stronger. We should be thankful to God when we are tempted or have great suffering, for it is a chance to grow in Holiness.

How do we define sin? Easy: that which offends God.
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We are then in agreement. I believe that God has dominion over all things, and that nothing can occur outside of His power and will. The power and will of His creatures, including that of Satan who tempts humanity to evil, are derivative and not autonomous. I also believe that sin is disobedience towards God’s commands, which only He has the right to define and impose.
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What kind of definitions do you think (you that know quite a lot about God, and little about earthly matters) God uses?
 
fhansen said:
It only exists or is identifiable in relation to sight.
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That is not true. Give me another example.

Moreover, let me see if I can make an argument on this: (1) Existence is good, (2) Evil is privation of good, (3) Therefore evil is non-existence, (4) We experience evil, (5) Therefore evil exists, (6) This means that (3) and therefore (2) is wrong.
 
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