EVOLUTION: A Catholic Solution?

[reggieM]

The Barbarian, I have dedicated my career to Catholic education (I’ve been a teacher since 1980), and it is galling to hear people who are utterly ignorant of that field pontificating about imagined evils they fantasize teachers are subjecting children to.

StAnastasia

Pope John Paul II was so concerned about Catholic education that he required an Oath of Fidelity to be taken by all theology teachers.

Again, you’re a “Catholic educator” who doesn’t hesitate to refer to the Blessed Trinity as “it” (a term for an inanimate object).

Having fought battles in Catholic education for 25 years, launched several fundraising campaigns and was a founding member of an independent Catholic school, I can advise you to refrain from your rash and false accusations.

 

[reggieM]

StAnastasia:

… cowardly … pathetic …baseless … contemptuously impugning … galling … utterly ignorant … pontificating …imagined evils … fantasize …

You don’t sound very happy.

 

[edwest2]

I do a lot of work with Catholic schools, and I have never once heard of of a single one promoting atheistic materialism. I assume you have no experience with Catholic education yourself, which is why you can take the cowardly action of throwing out a pathetic and baseless accusation, contemptuously impugning the work of dedicated religious and lay teachers alike.

StAnastasia

Having attended a Catholic school, with religious and lay teachers, I see Catholic teaching horribly twisted here. It is no longer enough to present information and leave it at that. No, the mission of a handful of posters here is to promote heretical ideas as true.

If those ideas are not accepted, step two is to get emotional and impugn the character and intelligence of the one who disagrees.

The final tactic is to use the insistence argument, which proves, clearly, that the goal is not a civil presentation of information but a concerted campaign to engineer consent.

Peace,
Ed

 

[reggieM]

Having attended a Catholic school, with religious and lay teachers, I see Catholic teaching horribly twisted here. It is no longer enough to present information and leave it at that. No, the mission of a handful of posters here is to promote heretical ideas as true.

If those ideas are not accepted, step two is to get emotional and impugn the character and intelligence of the one who disagrees.

The final tactic is to use the insistence argument, which proves, clearly, that the goal is not a civil presentation of information but a concerted campaign to engineer consent.

Peace,
Ed

Exactly right. We can see that I merely stated that atheistic-materialism should be banned from Catholic schools. That should be a very non-controversial statement. Any Catholic school principal who would allow such a thing to be taught should be removed from the staff anyway.
But this suggestion was greeted with an emotional tirade by St. Anastasia (I don’t read Barbarian’s posts so I don’t know what he said but it looks like he was upset also).
So you’re quite right, Ed – the response was emotional and there was a false accusation against me.
It’s not something that so-called “objective science” would offer, but instead it bears the hallmarks of a propaganda campaign.

 

[StAnastasia]

Having attended a Catholic school, with religious and lay teachers, I see Catholic teaching horribly twisted here. It is no longer enough to present information and leave it at that. No, the mission of a handful of posters here is to promote heretical ideas as true.Peace,Ed

Thank goodness your perception of heretics-under-every pew is confined to people complaining here on CAF and sequestered in the odd arch-conservative academy here and there. The rest of the Catholic world is doing just fine with evolution, ecumemism non-geocentrism, and the rest of the modern world, as attested to by the well-attended sessions at the National Catholic Education Association (NCEA). The parishes in our diocese are thriving joyous communities in dialogue with the world around them, not barricaded against it.

StAnastasia

 

[rad314]

Pope John Paul II was so concerned about Catholic education that he required an Oath of Fidelity to be taken by all theology teachers.

I assume you’re talking about the requirement to have a mandatum? Only about 10% of so-called Catholic colleges and universities in the US have complied. That should tell you something.

Are you familiar with the Cardinal Newman Society?

 

[Luke65]

Thank goodness your perception of heretics-under-every pew is confined to people complaining here on CAF and sequestered in the odd arch-conservative academy here and there. The rest of the Catholic world is doing just fine with evolution, ecumemism non-geocentrism, and the rest of the modern world, as attested to by the well-attended sessions at the National Catholic Education Association (NCEA). The parishes in our diocese are thriving joyous communities in dialogue with the world around them, not barricaded against it.

StAnastasia

John 15
18"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20Remember the words I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’** If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the One who sent me. 22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin."**

 

[reggieM]

I assume you’re talking about the requirement to have a mandatum?

Yes, that’s it.

Only about 10% of so-called Catholic colleges and universities in the US have complied. That should tell you something.

I didn’t know that the number was so small – it does indeed say a lot. It’s very sad. Those who accepted the mandatum made a public statement of their fidelity to the Magisterium. That is a trustworth and honorable thing. Certainly, parents should be given that much assurance about the teaching in the school. But amazingly, many Catholic educators blatantly opposed the Pope’s directive.
I agree with the phrase “so-called Catholic schools”.

Are you familiar with the Cardinal Newman Society?

Yes, I’ve really enjoyed their website and I support all of the good things they’re doing to expose the problems in our Catholic institutions. It’s great to see that they are supported by many students also. It tells me that younger Catholics are looking for education which is more faithful to what the Church teaches.

 

[reggieM]

Thank goodness your perception of heretics-under-every pew is confined to people complaining here on CAF and sequestered in the odd arch-conservative academy here and there.

We are blessed to have a couple of very active lay groups in my diocese who have been effective in having teachers removed from school faculties and we also had the Vatican force our bishop to remove his imprimatur from a book which contained heretical teaching. We also appealed to the CDF and Cardinal Ratzinger disciplined our bishop regarding a liberal-heretical pastor. His parish eventually went into schism.
In that case, there were heretics in every pew, not under them.

 

[Arclight]

… a book which contained heretical teaching. …

What book was that?, and what, specifically, did you find heretical?

 

[Arclight]

… I have always speculated that God chose the process of evolution to occur because it is perfect - each creature has it’s rightful place in relation to each other creature. …

That’s a false, almost anthropomorphic interpretation of evolution. There’s much imperfection in form, evolution is driven by random DNA changes caused by the environment or simply copying mistakes, and selection the result of events sometimes as catastrophic as meteor strikes but maybe as subtle as salinity changes in the oceans. There’s constant competition and constant turnover. Claiming that organisms are in their rightful place vis-à-vis each other sounds more like medieval social theory than an accurate description of nature.

 

[The_Barbarian]

Having attended a Catholic school, with religious and lay teachers, I see Catholic teaching horribly twisted here. It is no longer enough to present information and leave it at that. No, the mission of a handful of posters here is to promote heretical ideas as true.

As everyone here saw, the fact that the accuser declined to substantiate the accusation tells us all we need to know about it.

It takes more than a vague anger at the Church to do more than make vague accusations. One has to have the courage of one’s convictions, and the confidence that one is telling the truth.

 

[The_Barbarian]

Claiming that organisms are in their rightful place vis-à-vis each other sounds more like medieval social theory than an accurate description of nature.

It’s not very scientific, but one doesn’t always have to be scientific. Fact is, it’s a remarkable property of nature that ecosystems tend to settle into a nicely-balanced order, in which organisms become increasingly fit for that system.

As a scientist, I can note the specific processes and laws that make it happen, but I am, as a Christian, in awe of a God Who could create a world in which such things happen.

 

[rossum]

As a scientist, I can note the specific processes and laws that make it happen, but I am, as a Christian, in awe of a God Who could create a world in which such things happen.

When God makes a “self-assembly” bookcase, you don’t have to assemble it; the bookcase assembles itself.

(There is probably a Chuck Norris fact in there somewhere.)

rossum

 

[StAnastasia]

We are blessed to have a couple of very active lay groups in my diocese who have been effective in having teachers removed from school faculties and we also had the Vatican force our bishop to remove his imprimatur from a book which contained heretical teaching.

Your “Inquisition” would fall flat in our diocese, where we strive to live joyfully in the love of Christ, not tiptoeing around in fear of lurking heresy hunters.

 

[buffalo]

Grannymh, of course you’re right that this is a high point in the Christian spiritual experience. I was interpreting the question in the sense of the historical term “Christendom.”

Yes, that was my question. Historical Christendom.

 

[buffalo]

Pope John Paul II was so concerned about Catholic education that he required an Oath of Fidelity to be taken by all theology teachers.

Again, you’re a “Catholic educator” who doesn’t hesitate to refer to the Blessed Trinity as “it” (a term for an inanimate object).

Having fought battles in Catholic education for 25 years, launched several fundraising campaigns and was a founding member of an independent Catholic school, I can advise you to refrain from your rash and false accusations.

My guess is she didn’t sign the mandatum.

 

[rad314]

Yes, I’ve really enjoyed their website and I support all of the good things they’re doing to expose the problems in our Catholic institutions. It’s great to see that they are supported by many students also. It tells me that younger Catholics are looking for education which is more faithful to what the Church teaches.

Any family looking for a solid, honestly Catholic college or university can’t afford to miss the ‘Newman Guide’.

 

[StAnastasia]

Yes, that was my question. Historical Christendom.

It depends on how you define “Christendom.” By that term do you mean the Christian religion? Christian culture? Christian society? Byzantium? The medieval conception of of a balanced imperium and sacerdotium? Do you mean the high point in terms of worship? or of sacred literature? or of monastic expansion? or of ecclesiastical architecture? or of intellectual development? or of geopolitical hegemony? Do you mean this pre- or post-European reconaissance and its global missionary efforts?

StAnastasia

 

[reggieM]

Your “Inquisition” would fall flat in our diocese, where we strive to live joyfully in the love of Christ, not tiptoeing around in fear of lurking heresy hunters.

The “joys” of dissenting Catholicism are but a temporary phenomenon in any diocese. A change at the top can bring about that healthy fear of God which is the beginning of wisdom. Note Bp. Finn in Kansas City or Abp. Dolan taking over for the “joyful” Bp. Rembert Weakland in Milwaukee.