B
buffalo
Guest
Which is not totally trustworthy.
The evidence could be mis-interpreted, the reasoning faulty and the logic, too. But OK.
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The evidence could be mis-interpreted, the reasoning faulty and the logic, too. But OK.
S
StAnastasia
Guest
If you insist that the Church insists that humans descend from two sole parents, then the dichotomy is as you represent it. In that case, I’ll go with the evidence and declare that Ott and the Church are wrong…However, absent the stories from Genesis, I, and many others, would still care deeply about human origins.Alec
It’s silly that there’s even a continuing dispute about this in 2009!
B
buffalo
Guest
hecd2;4802902:
If you insist that the Church insists that humans descend from two sole parents, then the dichotomy is as you represent it. In that case, I’ll go with the evidence and declare that Ott and the Church are wrong…However, absent the stories from Genesis, I, and many others, would still care deeply about human origins.Alec
As if just flipping the calendar makes a difference.It’s silly that there’s even a continuing dispute about this in 2009!
A
Arclight
Guest
But interesting to speculate how they would cut up textbooks on geology, biology, paleontology, chemistry, astronomy, physics, history and probably a dozen other disciplines to make them conform to their version of the Bible.…It’s silly that there’s even a continuing dispute about this in 2009!
Would this be a line by line edit, or a wholesale removal of chapters?
You’re the one to ask, because you deal with Nowledge and those textybooks all day long.
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reggieM
Guest
On Darwin’s Birthday, Only 4 in 10 Believe in Evolution
PRINCETON, NJ – On the eve of the 200th anniversary of Charles Darwin’s birth, a new Gallup Poll shows that only 39% of Americans say they “believe in the theory of evolution,”
PRINCETON, NJ – On the eve of the 200th anniversary of Charles Darwin’s birth, a new Gallup Poll shows that only 39% of Americans say they “believe in the theory of evolution,”
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grannymh
Guest
Dear Alec,However, absent the stories from Genesis, I, and many others, would still care deeply about human origins.
Alec
evolutionpages.com
Normally, this granny does not straight out give advice to you younguns, but this is one of my cranky days.
The stories in Genesis should stay put. Keep your concept of the truth of Genesis even though I would like to change some of the wording. Stay connected with the literature.
This reminds me. I am old enough to have studied under a professor who was old enough to remember how to deal with the “index”. In practical terms, very few people even knew about the index. In any case, it was not a big deal.
My considering Genesis as literature reminded me of this old professor. He started the course by saying that automatically we could read a bunch of books from the index. I may not remember what he taught, but I sure remember his smile as he added that if there was anything else, anything at all, that we would like to read from the index, let him know. Apparently, universities were exempted.
Two things that I learned was first that this particular professor was considerate of the sensibilities of his students and second that we were totally free to explore the intellectual world.
As I look back, I can see that in one way, this man was like the Catholic Church who wants to protect the faith of the flock. And at the same time, he was like the Catholic Church who knows that we have minds and emotions to be used in learning, understanding, and enjoying the universe in all its wonder, beauty and mystery. Humankind is the most important part of the wonder, beauty and mystery.
In his elderly simplicity, this professor balanced two (among many) aspects of the Church. When this concept of balance is expanded to the population, it becomes a
teeter-totter. This teeter-totter is how I imagine the tension which exists between evolutionary theory and Catholic doctrine --speaking as one who as a child was very skilled in the physics of a teeter-totter.
My advice to you younguns is to remember that if the board of the teeter-totter was broken in half, that is separated, both parties lost. Both parties also lost if the central fulcrum was missing.
Caring deeply about human origins is not only one’s spiritual strength, this care and concern are like a central fulcrum which could ease the tension between scientists and philosophers provided that the mystery, the unknown which exists both physically and spiritually, is recognized as always being with us in one degree or another.
I do remember the thrills when my partner and I, while separate at the ends of the teeter-totter, still pushed off the ground in cooperation.
Blessings,
granny
All human life is beautiful in its mystery.
A
Arclight
Guest
Are you trying to make a point? Or is your point that science is determined by popular vote?On Darwin’s Birthday, Only 4 in 10 Believe in Evolution
PRINCETON, NJ – On the eve of the 200th anniversary of Charles Darwin’s birth, a new Gallup Poll shows that only 39% of Americans say they “believe in the theory of evolution,”
I doubt 1% of Americans could explain how an airplane flies.
A
Arclight
Guest
Other interesting snippets from the same Gallup poll:
39% believe (for what its worth) but only 25% do not believe in evolution.
“Naturally, some of this is because of educational differences. Americans who have lower levels of formal education are significantly less likely than others to be able to identity Darwin with his theory, and to have an opinion on it either way.”
Basically a worthless poll, but it does cast an interesting light on who the anti-science people are and how they spin polls.
39% believe (for what its worth) but only 25% do not believe in evolution.
“Naturally, some of this is because of educational differences. Americans who have lower levels of formal education are significantly less likely than others to be able to identity Darwin with his theory, and to have an opinion on it either way.”
Basically a worthless poll, but it does cast an interesting light on who the anti-science people are and how they spin polls.
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Orogeny
Guest
I think the most important thing in that poll is how much education means to the results. Those with high school or less are far more likely to disagree with evolution while those with any education are much more likely to accept evolution. I think that says a lot.Other interesting snippets from the same Gallup poll:
39% believe (for what its worth) but only 25% do not believe in evolution.
“Naturally, some of this is because of educational differences. Americans who have lower levels of formal education are significantly less likely than others to be able to identity Darwin with his theory, and to have an opinion on it either way.”
Basically a worthless poll, but it does cast an interesting light on who the anti-science people are and how they spin polls.
Peace
Tim
B
buffalo
Guest
Pride accompanies education.I think the most important thing in that poll is how much education means to the results. Those with high school or less are far more likely to disagree with evolution while those with any education are much more likely to accept evolution. I think that says a lot.
Peace
Tim
A
Arclight
Guest
You’re a very humble man.Pride accompanies education.
N
Namesake
Guest
Are you aware that the US is the only western country in which those percentages can be found? Do you suppose it might be related to the fundamentalist/creationist phenomenon which is also exclusive to the US?On Darwin’s Birthday, Only 4 in 10 Believe in Evolution
PRINCETON, NJ – On the eve of the 200th anniversary of Charles Darwin’s birth, a new Gallup Poll shows that only 39% of Americans say they “believe in the theory of evolution,”
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edwest2
Guest
No. I think that is the desired conclusion.
guardian.co.uk/science/2009/feb/01/evolution-darwin-survey-creationism
It appears those who believe in evolution have created a stereotype or generalization. Education is given as the key to “understanding,” but in the modern use of the word, “understanding” = acceptance. There’s also the idea that “small town” = ignorance and the implication that moving to the ‘big city’ would raise someone’s IQ.
Peace,
Ed
guardian.co.uk/science/2009/feb/01/evolution-darwin-survey-creationism
It appears those who believe in evolution have created a stereotype or generalization. Education is given as the key to “understanding,” but in the modern use of the word, “understanding” = acceptance. There’s also the idea that “small town” = ignorance and the implication that moving to the ‘big city’ would raise someone’s IQ.
Peace,
Ed
O
Orogeny
Guest
Do you find me prideful and what does that mean when it comes to accepting evolution?Pride accompanies education.
Should I ignore that which I have studied and understand and defer to those who have done neither? Is that pride buffalo?
Peace
Tim
R
reggieM
Guest
I didn’t know that, but a survey in the UK last year showed a dramatic increase in those who do not believe in evolutionary theory also (as Ed West just posted):Are you aware that the US is the only western country in which those percentages can be found?
Half of Britons do not believe in evolution, survey finds
No, I don’t.Do you suppose it might be related to the fundamentalist/creationist phenomenon which is also exclusive to the US?
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reggieM
Guest
That is an important truth. We might qualify it to “secular education”, but even education in sacred doctrine is filled with dangers around the sins of pride. The perennial spiritual teaching of the Church has always warned about that.Pride accompanies education.
Education in virtue and the way of the Saints is the solid foundation that we should be building. A lot of precious time is wasted on secular science – especially useless studies regarding the theory of evolution. This almost always leads to arrogant attitudes. We’ve see it for years among some of our “theologians” who claim to reinterpret all of the Deposit of Faith.
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buffalo
Guest
Now now Orogeny. I really didn’t make a charge against anyone in particular. However, all of us are guilty of pride to one degree or another.Do you find me prideful and what does that mean when it comes to accepting evolution?
Should I ignore that which I have studied and understand and defer to those who have done neither? Is that pride buffalo?
Peace
Tim
A remedy for pride is humility.
C
cerad
Guest
From 0 to 39 isn’t bad especially considering that the theory was not even published for another 50 years.On Darwin’s Birthday, Only 4 in 10 Believe in Evolution
PRINCETON, NJ – On the eve of the 200th anniversary of Charles Darwin’s birth, a new Gallup Poll shows that only 39% of Americans say they “believe in the theory of evolution,”
Lets contrast that with Catholicism. After 2000 years they have what, some 24% of the U.S. population? Looks like someone has some catching up to do.
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Orogeny
Guest
Well, perhaps you could rephrase your statement. How do you equate the fact that people with the most education tend to accept evolution and those with the least education tend to discount it and how does pride enter into that equation?Now now Orogeny. I really didn’t make a charge against anyone in particular. However, all of us are guilty of pride to one degree or another.
A remedy for pride is humility.
Is it humble to cast aside that which I have studied and understand and defer to the claims of someone who hasn’t studied and doesn’t understand?
Peace
Tim
E
edwest2
Guest
Curiosity is a good thing. However, a desire for novelty is not necessarily a good thing. Also, in a Western culture where people have been programmed to respond with delight to the word New, some unscrupulous people are entering among believers and saying, Look! We’ve got something new! The Hippies did the same thing. A new Woodstock Nation was promised but nothing happened. Nothing good came of their attempt at upheaval.
A desire for novelty is cited by Humani Generis as one of the factors motivating some of those who wanted the Church to change - another buzz word that people have been taught to accept with delight.
The Catholic Church has a deposit of faith, and the foundational absolute truths form a solid foundation for all Catholics, but they must actually use it for it to be effective. The discernment offered to us by our shepherds, like Pope Benedict, needs to be known and taken seriously. The Opinion Culture operating on the internet actually dulls the critical thinking process, especially when opinions that are either totally false, partly false or missing important information are presented as fact.
My brothers and sisters, as Humani Generis tells us, the Church is beset by those who want it to be different and to change into something it cannot be. To listen to men who do not know about the faith and who believe they have something to tell the Church when already, greater minds have dealt with and proclaimed as settled, many questions that still linger to this day.
Perhaps, for some, it is a hobby. A mental exercise - a way to stave off boredom. Perhaps for some, it is part of a concerted campaign, which I have seen to be the case on many internet forums. The Secular Humanists are demanding a secular world. They have identified the public classroom (and public school teachers) as a battlefield for their indoctrination program. This fact needs to be widely known.
Peace,
Ed
A desire for novelty is cited by Humani Generis as one of the factors motivating some of those who wanted the Church to change - another buzz word that people have been taught to accept with delight.
The Catholic Church has a deposit of faith, and the foundational absolute truths form a solid foundation for all Catholics, but they must actually use it for it to be effective. The discernment offered to us by our shepherds, like Pope Benedict, needs to be known and taken seriously. The Opinion Culture operating on the internet actually dulls the critical thinking process, especially when opinions that are either totally false, partly false or missing important information are presented as fact.
My brothers and sisters, as Humani Generis tells us, the Church is beset by those who want it to be different and to change into something it cannot be. To listen to men who do not know about the faith and who believe they have something to tell the Church when already, greater minds have dealt with and proclaimed as settled, many questions that still linger to this day.
Perhaps, for some, it is a hobby. A mental exercise - a way to stave off boredom. Perhaps for some, it is part of a concerted campaign, which I have seen to be the case on many internet forums. The Secular Humanists are demanding a secular world. They have identified the public classroom (and public school teachers) as a battlefield for their indoctrination program. This fact needs to be widely known.
Peace,
Ed
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