Evolution a Farce?

[reggieM]

To The Barbarian -
Here is the truth. Science is only a fragment.

Science deals with the externals of life - literally, it is superficial in its knowledge looking only at physical nature. Interestingly, as men and women of God, we are called to rise above nature - to overcome it. Science is of the earth and it cannot reach heavenly things where the ultimate truth resides. This has not stopped many scientists, however, from making claims about the mysteries of God’s creation as well as about the nature of man.

Monod nonetheless finds the possibility for evolution in the fact that in the very propagation of the project there can be mistakes in the act of transmission. Because nature is conservative, these mistakes, once having come into existence, are carried on. Such mistakes can add up, and from the adding up of mistakes something new can arise. Now an astonishing conclusion follows: It was in this way that the whole world of living creatures, and human beings themselves, came into existence. We are the product of “haphazard mistakes.”

This is orthodox Darwinism. Nothing new. Everything that is created is a “mutation” – a mistake, an abnormality - a freak of nature. That is Darwin’s idea.

However, the Holy Father responds …

What response shall we make to this view?

Clearly, the Darwinian-apologists will tell us to swallow it whole.

But notice that the Holy Father rejects this classic piece of Darwinian rhetoric:

But we must have the audacity to say that the great projects of the living creation are not the products of chance and error.

Why would we need “audacity” to say that the great projects of God’s creation are not the products of chance and mutation (error)? Obviously, because the Darwinian attack-machine will not permit such a thing to be said and one needs to be bold in the face of the lies and propaganda. The Pope is warning us quite well – as he knows.

For those who claim that there is no evidence supporting God’s intelligence at work in creation, the Pope refutes that also:

The great projects of the living creation point to a creating Reason and show us a creating Intelligence, and they do so more luminously and radiantly today than ever before.

Nature shows the intelligence of God at work, more luminously and radiantly than before. This refutes the notion that God’s work cannot be observed in nature.

Human beings are not a mistake but something willed; they are the fruit of love. They can disclose in themselves, in the bold project that they are, the language of the creating Intelligence that speaks to them and that moves them to say: Yes, Father, you have willed me.

Human beings are not the products of evolution, since evolution is based on mutations (mistakes or errors). The Pope has made this quite clear.

 

[Dale_M]

The hominid line and the God given soul would be two entities. Catholic teaching is that they are one, created together. Dualism is heresy.

I don’t see any dualism. When God created Adam, he gave him a human soul just as Mary was given a soul unlike her parents.

1. , 5 Preternatural gifts and infused knowledge

Thank you for that, but I don’t see why these would be objections to evolution. God intervened when creating Adam. I think we can all agree on that.

The solution is - God created Adam and Eve supernaturally, body and soul, and inserted them into the timeline wherever He wished regardless what may or may not been happening in the universe at the time.

Yes, that is one explanation, but there is no reason to object to an evolution based scenario, other than the problem of Eve.

 

[M0nkey]

After having seen a short-film at the museum about the Galapagos, showing evolution as undisputable fact, and glorifying Darwin (almost like worship, it was kinda creepy). I thought to myself: “This guy was some kid who got on a boat, went to an island, saw some reptiles and birds, prolly did a lot of smoking (oh-no!), and came back with a theory.”

I seriosly think that his real intention was to dispute God, and the dignity of the human person.

 

[reggieM]

I seriosly think that his real intention was to dispute God, and the dignity of the human person.

Agreed.

 

[reggieM]

God intervened when creating Adam. I think we can all agree on that.

Our atheist friends here on CAF won’t go along with that one.

Additionally, how do you know that this is the only time that God “intervened” in the development of life? If it happened more often, how does Darwinism handle that fact?

 

[edwest2]

To reggieM -

Your view is correct and consistent with what the Church teaches, but also consider this:

Denying God? No problem.

Denying science? Bring in the Scientific Inquisition.

Man’s knowledge is fighting for control of other men’s hearts and minds. Once everyone agrees, part two. The elimination of all religious and superstitious beliefs from among the people. Now, as opposed to Communist Russia where the State did the work, a small group will implement the plan here. The fruit of disbelief is already evident in American culture. But, the Holy Spirit of God is at work even now.

God bless,
Ed

 

[M0nkey]

Denying science? Bring in the Scientific Inquisition.

There lies the problem. Science is the new religion. In contrast, in the past the Church has enabled further scientific endeavor. Read History (but stay away from the History Channel, I honestly don’t know what’s wrong with those ppl).

I personally don’t see how this theory of evolution has further advanced research in the medical field, genetic research, stem cell research, etc. All that it does is explain away, if you are atheist, how science and religion (Truth) do not coalesce.

 

[Dale_M]

Our atheist friends here on CAF won’t go along with that one.

True that.

Additionally, how do you know that this is the only time that God “intervened” in the development of life?

I don’t know that and it is entirely possible. I guess I would be surprised if it were not the case.

If it happened more often, how does Darwinism handle that fact?

Darwinism can’t explain supernatural interventions. They would appear as unexplainable, if they were noticed at all.

 

[BPW75]

I’m curious… do female monkeys have an extra rib?

 

[Dale_M]

I’m curious… do female monkeys have an extra rib?

I’m not sure about monkeys, but human females don’t.

 

[buffalo]

I don’t see any dualism. When God created Adam, he gave him a human soul just as Mary was given a soul unlike her parents.

Thank you for that, but I don’t see why these would be objections to evolution. God intervened when creating Adam. I think we can all agree on that.

Yes, that is one explanation, but there is no reason to object to an evolution based scenario, other than the problem of Eve.

How does this sound?

• God took a pre-existing creature, breathed a soul into him, gave him the gifts, infused knowledge, gave him bodily immortality, etc… Basically God had to completely transform this creature to fashion him so. Seems like as much work as just to create him from the earth.

Then after He did all this He created Eve from Adam so that all humans had this single set of parents. In this case He did not take a pre-existing creature, He made her from him.

 

[The_Barbarian]

There is no problem with Eve, either, since it is perfectly possible for God to give souls to a pair of pre-existing primates who then became fully human and produced all living humans.

This would the situation mentioned by Cardinal Ratzinger.

 

[The_Barbarian]

**Human beings are not a mistake but something willed; they are the fruit of love. They can disclose in themselves, in the bold project that they are, the language of the creating Intelligence that speaks to them and that moves them to say: Yes, Father, you have willed me. **

Human beings are not the products of evolution, since evolution is based on mutations (mistakes or errors). The Pope has made this quite clear.

He has, but not the way that you’d like:

**While there is little consensus among scientists about how the origin of this first microscopic life is to be explained, there is general agreement among them that the first organism dwelt on this planet about 3.5-4 billion years ago. Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism. Converging evidence from many studies in the physical and biological sciences furnishes mounting support for some theory of evolution to account for the development and diversification of life on earth, while controversy continues over the pace and mechanisms of evolution. While the story of human origins is complex and subject to revision, physical anthropology and molecular biology combine to make a convincing case for the origin of the human species in Africa about 150,000 years ago in a humanoid population of common genetic lineage. However it is to be explained, the decisive factor in human origins was a continually increasing brain size, culminating in that of homo sapiens. With the development of the human brain, the nature and rate of evolution were permanently altered: with the introduction of the uniquely human factors of consciousness, intentionality, freedom and creativity, biological evolution was recast as social and cultural evolution.
**
Cardinal Ratzinger, Report of the International Theological Commission

 

[edwest2]

You only speak for one side. You do not speak for both sides. This is the error. Science is not God, but God wills things into existence and those things he wills know of Him.

If man is to survive, he cannot, through natural reason, lose sight of this fact. This is what makes us fully human, science is a list of observations that, by current dictate, is limited in scope.

God bless,
Ed

 

[thistle]

Is it not obvious? We need to distinguish between evolution and the origins of man.

The points I posted are Dogma.

Please share with me how evolution deals with them?

You haven’t answered my question. Does the Church allow us to accept evolution? Yes or No?

 

[buffalo]

There is no problem with Eve, either, since it is perfectly possible for God to give souls to a pair of pre-existing primates who then became fully human and produced all living humans.

This would the situation mentioned by Cardinal Ratzinger.

But Dogma is Eve came from Adam. Are you claiming the Pope is trying to reverse Dogma?

 

[buffalo]

You haven’t answered my question. Does the Church allow us to accept evolution? Yes or No?

As to the origins of man - it cannot be reconciled.

 

[VociMike]

But Dogma is Eve came from Adam. Are you claiming the Pope is trying to reverse Dogma?

Where can I find the dogmatic teaching that Eve literally came from the side of Adam? Now that you’ve made the claim, please back it up.

 

[buffalo]

Where can I find the dogmatic teaching that Eve literally came from the side of Adam? Now that you’ve made the claim, please back it up.

[766](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/766.htm’) The Church is born primarily of Christ’s total self-giving for our salvation, anticipated in the institution of the Eucharist and fulfilled on the cross. "The origin and growth of the Church are symbolized by the blood and water which flowed from the open side of the crucified Jesus."171 "For it was from the side of Christ as he slept the sleep of death upon the cross that there came forth the ‘wondrous sacrament of the whole Church.’"172 As Eve was formed from the sleeping Adam’s side, so the Church was born from the pierced heart of Christ hanging dead on the cross.173

 

[Dale_M]

How does this sound?

• God took a pre-existing creature, breathed a soul into him, gave him the gifts, infused knowledge, gave him bodily immortality, etc… Basically God had to completely transform this creature to fashion him so. Seems like as much work as just to create him from the earth.

Then after He did all this He created Eve from Adam so that all humans had this single set of parents. In this case He did not take a pre-existing creature, He made her from him.

I think you have every right to reject evolution. I just don’t think it is necessary to reject evolution.

But whatever route was used… does it really matter? What I think matters is that God created man.