Evolution & Adam & Eve

[Jozefo]

“She preserved him, that was first formed by God the father of the world, when he was created alone.” Wisdom 10:1

There are some tough Biblical passages and Church teaching to get by with that theory. It is a good try to reconcile science and theology. However the issue of having sex with hominids without souls sounds a lot like… a person having sex with an animal. The issue of Adam and Eve’s parents and grandparents, etc is another issue to deal with. They don’t get to be human?

I just realized you were writing to me. Sorry about that. Anyway, no, I think God formed Adam from the dust of the ground. Adam had no parents other than God himself.

As far as having sex with animals, look at Cain. Where did his wives come from? And what were they? I think his wives were human, but less than mankind.

I guess the bottom line for me is, I simply do not believe that all of humanity is descended from Adam. Rather I think Adam is the progenitor of God’s chosen people.

 

[James_Urda]

“She preserved him, that was first formed by God the father of the world, when he was created alone.” Wisdom 10:1

There are some tough Biblical passages and Church teaching to get by with that theory. It is a good try to reconcile science and theology. However the issue of having sex with hominids without souls sounds a lot like… a person having sex with an animal. The issue of Adam and Eve’s parents and grandparents, etc is another issue to deal with. They don’t get to be human?

The Serpent, I am not suggesting that all sexual unions after the Fall were between souled humans and unsouled hominids. Some may have been only between soulded humans. Jesus could have descended from such a line.

 

[edwest2]

“She preserved him, that was first formed by God the father of the world, when he was created alone.” Wisdom 10:1

There are some tough Biblical passages and Church teaching to get by with that theory. It is a good try to reconcile science and theology. However the issue of having sex with hominids without souls sounds a lot like… a person having sex with an animal. The issue of Adam and Eve’s parents and grandparents, etc is another issue to deal with. They don’t get to be human?

There is no evidence that anyone other than an individual Adam and an individual Eve were not the first parents of all alive today. The hominid or pre-human idea is fiction and has no Biblical support at all.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

After the Fall, I would not doubt that sex with other hominids may have occurred. What tells us that God would not have infused a sould into such hybrids?

There is no evidence for hominids.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

I just realized you were writing to me. Sorry about that. Anyway, no, I think God formed Adam from the dust of the ground. Adam had no parents other than God himself.

As far as having sex with animals, look at Cain. Where did his wives come from? And what were they? I think his wives were human, but less than mankind.

I guess the bottom line for me is, I simply do not believe that all of humanity is descended from Adam. Rather I think Adam is the progenitor of God’s chosen people.

There is no Biblical evidence to support that idea.

Peace,
Ed

 

[James_Urda]

There is no evidence for hominids.

Peace,
Ed

Catholic teaching allows for man to be derived from lower animal. Does not Church teaching imply such hominids exits?

 

[edwest2]

Catholic teaching allows for man to be derived from lower animal. Does not Church teaching imply such hominids exits?

No.

Peace,
Ed

 

[James_Urda]

No.

Peace,
Ed

Why does not statement from Humani Generis allow for hominids?
Pope Pius XII declared that “the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions . . . take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—[but] the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God” (Pius XII, Humani Generis 36).

 

[Jozefo]

There is no Biblical evidence to support that idea.

Peace,
Ed

I think there is evidence, in that Cain went out and dwelt in the land of Nod, and had many wives there.

Actually, there is less evidence that these wives were Adam and Eve’s progeny.

 

[Aloysium]

I think there is evidence, in that Cain went out and dwelt in the land of Nod, and had many wives there.

Actually, there is less evidence that these wives were Adam and Eve’s progeny.

This is what you imagine. No proof of anything here.

As to allowing for hominids, again this is not what the church teaches.

The origin of the human body may have come from pre-existent living matter, but
there was one man Adam from whom
Eve was formed and
through them all humanity sprang is what we believe.

btw evolution is a banned topic for good reason

 

[Jozefo]

This is what you imagine. No proof of anything here.

As to allowing for hominids, again this is not what the church teaches.

The origin of the human body may have come from pre-existent living matter, but
there was one man Adam from whom
Eve was formed and
through them all humanity sprang is what we believe.

btw evolution is a banned topic for good reason

Evidence, not proof, yes. And I’m not talking about evolution.

 

[edwest2]

Why does not statement from Humani Generis allow for hominids?
Pope Pius XII declared that “the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions . . . take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—[but] the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God” (Pius XII, Humani Generis 36).

“pre-existent and living matter” says hominids to you? It’s as if God could not literally take the dust or slime of the earth and endow it with qualities by which he could literally form a living human being?

We are the clay and God is the hand of a potter.

biblehub.com/isaiah/29-16.htm

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

I think there is evidence, in that Cain went out and dwelt in the land of Nod, and had many wives there.

Actually, there is less evidence that these wives were Adam and Eve’s progeny.

You look to science but ignore the power of God to do things only God can do? That is a problem. The God who created all could break any of the rules at any time. Jesus raised the dead, gave sight to the blind and cleansed the lepers instantly and without science and technology. Some want us to place one above the other. When God is missing from the equation or is declared powerless - that is the problem.

biblehub.com/genesis/5-4.htm

Peace,
Ed

 

[Jozefo]

You look to science but ignore the power of God to do things only God can do? That is a problem. The God who created all could break any of the rules at any time. Jesus raised the dead, gave sight to the blind and cleansed the lepers instantly and without science and technology. Some want us to place one above the other. When God is missing from the equation or is declared powerless - that is the problem.

biblehub.com/genesis/5-4.htm

Peace,
Ed

I agree Ed. God can do anything. I’m a little concerned though. Where have you seen me appealing to science in justifying my opinions?

 

[James_Urda]

“pre-existent and living matter” says hominids to you? It’s as if God could not literally take the dust or slime of the earth and endow it with qualities by which he could literally form a living human being?

We are the clay and God is the hand of a potter.

biblehub.com/isaiah/29-16.htm

Peace,
Ed

Yes, it could ultimately include hominids. The teaching is concerning evolution in general. Hominids would have evoled from single cell organisms and God, in turn, used them to ensoul Adam. Can you provide an official church teaching that precludes man’s body coming from hominids? If not, it is merely your interpretation that living matter excludes hominids.

 

[Jozefo]

Yes, it could ultimately include hominids. The teaching is concerning evolution in general. Hominids would have evoled from single cell organisms and God, in turn, used them to ensoul Adam. Can you provide an official church teaching that precludes man’s body coming from hominids? If not, it is merely your interpretation that living matter excludes hominids.

Another alternative, the one from which I’ve been working, is that God created humans in Genesis 1:26, and later on created Adam in Genesis 2:7.

 

[edwest2]

Yes, it could ultimately include hominids. The teaching is concerning evolution in general. Hominids would have evoled from single cell organisms and God, in turn, used them to ensoul Adam. Can you provide an official church teaching that precludes man’s body coming from hominids? If not, it is merely your interpretation that living matter excludes hominids.

Where is the evidence for hominids? There are many species that went extinct over the last 40 years, not to mention long ago, and there are species that resemble us that are alive today but are not human beings, as may have been the case in the past with so-called hominids. You need to show how “hominids” have any relationship whatsoever to human beings.

There is zero Church teaching that ‘God looked around and picked a few hominids and decided to give them souls.’ Science cannot study God or the soul. That is where the analogy fails. As far as science is concerned, since the soul can’t be detected using scientific means then it does not exist.

Ed

 

[edwest2]

Another alternative, the one from which I’ve been working, is that God created humans in Genesis 1:26, and later on created Adam in Genesis 2:7.

There is no Scriptural basis for this assumption.

Ed

 

[Jozefo]

There is no Scriptural basis for this assumption.

Ed

Genesis 1:26 talks about man plural, and 2:7 talks about the man. Now I’m not claiming my opinion to be anything other than an opinion. At any rate, these are two verses in Scripture, and I’m drawing a logical inference from them, along with Cain’s dwelling in Nod and having wives there. Thus, Scriptural basis is provided.

 

[Jozefo]

Genesis 1:26 talks about man plural, and 2:7 talks about the man. Now I’m not claiming my opinion to be anything other than an opinion. At any rate, these are two verses in Scripture, and I’m drawing a logical inference from them, along with Cain’s dwelling in Nod and having wives there. Thus, Scriptural basis is provided.

Also, I notice that the word ‘peace’ has suddenly been dropped from your signature. Am I to infer anything from that? Or is it simply something that happened?