Evolution & Adam & Eve

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Jozefo said:
I just realized you were writing to me. Sorry about that. Anyway, no, I think God formed Adam from the dust of the ground. Adam had no parents other than God himself.

As far as having sex with animals, look at Cain. Where did his wives come from? And what were they? I think his wives were human, but less than mankind.

I guess the bottom line for me is, I simply do not believe that all of humanity is descended from Adam. Rather I think Adam is the progenitor of God’s chosen people.
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My suspicion is many people don’t believe Adam was the only one. However the Catholic Church teaches that everyone now living is descended from Adam, and his sin passes to us by propagation, not imitation of that sin. The Council of Trent’s teaching on Original sin says this.
 
James_Urda said:
After the Fall, I would not doubt that sex with other hominids may have occurred. What tells us that God would not have infused a sould into such hybrids?
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Pius XII 's teaching in Humani Generis against Adam being a group of people, or there being other people not decended from Adam.
 
James_Urda said:
The Serpant - Can you be more specific in explaining the biblical passages and Church teaching that need to be gotton by?
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The quote from Wisdom could be interpreted as excluding other people or hominids. The Council of Trent’s teaching that Original sin is passed on by propagation. Humani Generis teaching against Adam as a group of people or other humans not descended from Adam.
 
James_Urda said:
The Serpent, I am not suggesting that all sexual unions after the Fall were between souled humans and unsouled hominids. Some may have been only between soulded humans. Jesus could have descended from such a line.
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Genesis 2: 19 - 20 has all the animals being brought before Adam to be named, and says no helper was found for Adam. This seems to say no body like Adam was around!
 
If Adam and Eve were aware of the sin of eating of the tree of good and evil, and they did it anyway, they became sinners.

Since Cain and Abel were born of Adam and Eve, they were automatically sinners. When Cain went east of Eden and found some wives, were their children also automatically sinners?
 
The_Serpent said:
Pius XII 's teaching in Humani Generis against Adam being a group of people, or there being other people not decended from Adam.
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My orginal post does not go against this. All of Adam’s descendants have genes from both Adam & Eve. I believe Adam and Eve to have been individual people.
 
edwest2 said:
Where is the evidence for hominids? There are many species that went extinct over the last 40 years, not to mention long ago, and there are species that resemble us that are alive today but are not human beings, as may have been the case in the past with so-called hominids. You need to show how “hominids” have any relationship whatsoever to human beings.

There is zero Church teaching that ‘God looked around and picked a few hominids and decided to give them souls.’ Science cannot study God or the soul. That is where the analogy fails. As far as science is concerned, since the soul can’t be detected using scientific means then it does not exist.

Ed
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The evidence is in the large number of genes in the human gene pool. Far more than could be found from 2 human beings. You won’t find another hominid because genetically they are identical to humans. That is one of my primary points in my intial post. The Church does allow us to believe in evolution of mankind (it is the ensoulment that is done by God and that we must believe in, which I do). I agree science cannot detect the soul, I am not arguing that point. If the Church allows for evolution of the body, it what manner do you think it allow it if not from other hominid?
 
The_Serpent said:
The quote from Wisdom could be interpreted as excluding other people or hominids. The Council of Trent’s teaching that Original sin is passed on by propagation. Humani Generis teaching against Adam as a group of people or other humans not descended from Adam.
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My original post does not go against that in that all of us have Adam and Eve’s genes. All humans today are descendant from Adam and Eve.
 
The_Serpent said:
Pius XII 's teaching in Humani Generis against Adam being a group of people, or there being other people not decended from Adam.
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My original post says all of us that are human are descended from Adam. Any people not having genes from Adam & Eve were not infused with a human soul at conception.
 
The_Serpent said:
Genesis 2: 19 - 20 has all the animals being brought before Adam to be named, and says no helper was found for Adam. This seems to say no body like Adam was around!
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That’s may be because none of them had souls placed in them. A human soul is what makes us spiritually human. Mankind is comprised of souled individuals. My original post posits that in order to get the soul you have to have genes from Adam & Eve.
 
A spirit was placed in the original “dust” that became Adam.
From that unity, which we are, Eve was created.
There is no soul placed in anyone as far as I understand.
When we die our soul is incorporeal until the end times, when we will return to our true state.
It is not that when we are conceived that a soul is placed into matter.
Two human “soul-bodies” unite to participate in the creation of a new “soul-body”.
 
Aloysium said:
A spirit was placed in the original “dust” that became Adam.
From that unity, which we are, Eve was created.
There is no soul placed in anyone as far as I understand.
When we die our soul is incorporeal until the end times, when we will return to our true state.
It is not that when we are conceived that a soul is placed into matter.
Two human “soul-bodies” unite to participate in the creation of a new “soul-body”.
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According to the CCC : The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not “produced” by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.235
 
James_Urda said:
According to the CCC : The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not “produced” by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.235
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I agree totally 👍
 
James_Urda said:
. . . According to some scientist, the level of genetic variation present in humans today rules out a founding population with fewer than several thousand individuals. Lets assume these scientist are correct . . . Start with a population of un-souled upright apes, call them pre-human because they are not quite human yet. God puts human souls into two of them, Adam and Eve. . . The children find mates outside their immediate family so they mate with some of the pre-humans . . . God gives a soul to all hybrid human/pre-human offspring so all the children with at least one human parent are also human, i.e. they have a soul . . . over time (perhaps 50,000 – 75,000 years) the number of humans increases and the number of pre-humans declines until the pre-humans are extinct. In the process the humans acquire the genes from the pre-humans that are reflected in the current human population . . .
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This is incorrect in my opinion, guided by the teachings of the Church.
You split the soul from the body where it seems clearly to be one entity.
We fear death because it is not natural for us to be in a bodiless state.
I do not personally have to justify science, which does not accept the existence of the spirit. They will get to the truth eventually, but it will not be through distortions of what has been revealed to us.
 
Aloysium said:
This is incorrect in my opinion, guided by the teachings of the Church.
You split the soul from the body where it seems clearly to be one entity.
We fear death because it is not natural for us to be in a bodiless state.
I do not personally have to justify science, which does not accept the existence of the spirit. They will get to the truth eventually, but it will not be through distortions of what has been revealed to us.
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If humans today can receive a soul at conception, why not when hybrids when they are conceived?
 
I think the key question from my perspective is below.
If a human today can receive a human soul at conception, why not a hybrid when conceived? The hybrid is defined as an offspring with a parent whose genetic ancestors are Adam & Eve and the other parent not having Adam and Eve as ancestors. Does saying the hybrid has a human soul go against dogmatic Catholic teaching?
Is theirdogmatic Church teaching that speaks specifically to this question?
 
James_Urda said:
I think the key question from my perspective is below.
If a human today can receive a human soul at conception, why not a hybrid when conceived? The hybrid is defined as an offspring with a parent whose genetic ancestors are Adam & Eve and the other parent not having Adam and Eve as ancestors. Does saying the hybrid has a human soul go against dogmatic Catholic teaching?
Is theirdogmatic Church teaching that speaks specifically to this question?
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We are conceived as a whole person whose structure can be understood in terms of body, mind and spirit. There is one thing - a person. Nothing is received.
 
James_Urda said:
That’s may be because none of them had souls placed in them. A human soul is what makes us spiritually human. Mankind is comprised of souled individuals. My original post posits that in order to get the soul you have to have genes from Adam & Eve.
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James_Urda said:
If a human today can receive a human soul at conception, why not a hybrid when conceived? The hybrid is defined as an offspring with a parent whose genetic ancestors are Adam & Eve and the other parent not having Adam and Eve as ancestors. Does saying the hybrid has a human soul go against dogmatic Catholic teaching?
Is theirdogmatic Church teaching that speaks specifically to this question?
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Having a soul is nothing to do with genes, if it were you could invent a DNA swab test to determine who does and who doesn’t have a soul, and therefore who you deem human and sub-human, just the kind of thing white supremacists would like. :eek:

Don’t know what the Church teaches, but would hope it wouldn’t want to go down that road under any circumstances ever.
 
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