Evolution and Creationism

[Freddy]

Freddy:

If a genetic glitch happens to give one animal a slightly thicker coat and it gets warmer then he’s at a disadvantage. Most genetic changes are detrimental. If the temp. doesn’t change then no big deal. But if it gets colder then he’s got a slight adavantge.

Ok, now how do you apply this scenario to a plant like an artichoke or cauliflower ?

Your questions are now so obvious, Techno, that I can answer them a few minutes before you’ve even asked them. See the post previous to yours…

 

[Techno2000]

Your questions are now so obvious, Techno, that I can answer them a few minutes before you’ve even asked them. See the post previous to yours…

Just be honest and say you have no evolutionary details on how the artichoke and cauliflower came into being.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

Your questions are now so obvious, Techno, that I can answer them a few minutes before you’ve even asked them. See the post previous to yours…

Just be honest and say you have no evolutionary details on how the artichoke and cauliflower came into being.

I have no evolutionary details on how the artichoke and cauliflower came into being.

 

[Techno2000]

Techno2000:

Freddy:

Your questions are now so obvious, Techno, that I can answer them a few minutes before you’ve even asked them. See the post previous to yours…

Just be honest and say you have no evolutionary details on how the artichoke and cauliflower came into being.

I have no evolutionary details on how the artichoke and cauliflower came into being.

Thank you

 

[stoplooklisten]

We evolutionist say random mutation. If mutation is already hidden in the DNA, then where?

Last I looked, the genome of single-celled amoeba was multiples larger than the human genome. There appears to be a lot of dormant genetic code that may not express itself for many generations.

 

[buffalo]

Changes in the environment do not cause changes in the organism.

Right, organisms are changing the environment around them.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

Changes in the environment do not cause changes in the organism.

Right, organism are changing the environment around them.

Yeah. A lot of them eat it.

 

[buffalo]

So if it gets colder, a mammal doesn’t therefore grow a thicker fur coat. I know that’s how you think it works, but it doesn’t.

Actually they do. Epigenetic and cell directed changes allow these variations. These epigenetic changes are immediately passed to offspring.

 

[Hume]

Hume:

We evolutionist say random mutation. If mutation is already hidden in the DNA, then where?

I’m asking for the specific codons, please.

That is like asking for the bit location of 1 byte on a hard drive. Yet we know that designed instruction sets can string together specific bits to perform tasks. And the same bits can be combined in different ways. The data on the hd cannot do anything without the instruction set.

Ah. So you’ve no idea. It was as I suspected.

It is an idea you can do nothing to support, which makes it inferior to evolution by standards of a rationalist.

Last I looked, the genome of single-celled amoeba was multiples larger than the human genome. There appears to be a lot of dormant genetic code that may not express itself for many generations.

The genome of human beings is mapped fully.

Junk DNA exists - mere leftovers from your genetic past that requires less evolutionary “effort” to keep than to delete.

The reason “here’s a theory based on observation…” is clearly superior to “gosh, it’s so mysterious - we just don’t know!” is analogous to the reason the theory of evolution is superior to the facets of creationism.

 

[Hume]

…cell directed changes…

This is as thoroughly evidenced as Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, the Chupacabra, the Tooth Fairy, unicorns, griffons, and Russell’s Teapot.

 

[buffalo]

Ah. So you’ve no idea. It was as I suspected.

This is being slowly being unraveled but so far beyond our comprehension. It will take time since it is so very complex. But, rest assured more is being learned everyday and more papers will come out. As this happens you will have no choice but to consider it. That is the future…

 

[Michaelangelo]

Nothing like that is happening now in the real world.

So no mutations happens any longer?

 

[stoplooklisten]

less evolutionary “effort”

So, are you personifying evolution? God only knows but perhaps deep within you do actually believe in a personal force / designer / deity behind genetics and apparent evolution.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

So if it gets colder, a mammal doesn’t therefore grow a thicker fur coat. I know that’s how you think it works, but it doesn’t.

Actually they do. Epigenetic and cell directed changes allow these variations. These epigenetic changes are immediately passed to offspring.

Now you have a problem. Either you can suggest that environmental changes do cause speciation (or macroevolition if you like), which will blow Ripperger’s argument out of the water, as he says it’s impossible. Or you can suggest that they don’t, which makes Ripperger’s claim that ‘evolutionists’ hold that it happens to be fallacious.

Notwithstanding:

‘Although we can find cases where epigenetic effects apparently last from parents to offspring, this is not usually the case and almost all of the epigenetic switches or marks are reset in germ cells (eggs and sperm) and in the very earliest stages of development of an embryo. In fact if this wasn’t the case, the amazing development of a fertilised egg into a fully formed creature would be impossible.’ Epigenetics – It’s not just genes that make us | British Society for Cell Biology

Just like to repeat that last sentence:

‘In fact if this wasn’t the case, the amazing development of a fertilised egg into a fully formed creature would be impossible.’

 

[buffalo]

Either you can suggest that environmental changes do cause speciation (or macroevolition if you like)

Huh? These are limited variations within.

 

[Techno2000]

Techno2000:

Nothing like that is happening now in the real world.

So no mutations happens any longer?

Yes, two headed goats happens. But there’s no cold weather that’s killing off an entire species of animal except for one that just happens to have the lucky cold weather random mutation gene.

 

[buffalo]

‘Although we can find cases where epigenetic effects apparently last from parents to offspring, this is not usually the case and almost all of the epigenetic switches or marks are reset in germ cells (eggs and sperm) and in the very earliest stages of development of an embryo . In fact if this wasn’t the case, the amazing development of a fertilised egg into a fully formed creature would be impossible.’ https://bscb.org/learning-resources/softcell-e-learning/epigenetics-its-not-just-genes-that-make-us/

Just like to repeat that last sentence:

‘In fact if this wasn’t the case, the amazing development of a fertilised egg into a fully formed creature would be impossible .’

I am not sure how well you read the referenced article. It is rife with examples of which you deny and admits much is not known and is being heavily studied. Maybe you missed the point that

Epigenetics – It’s not just genes that make us​

It’s not all in your DNA

is metadata. It determines which tracks are played and in what order, and this is what epigenetics is to genetics. It is a set of processes that effects which genes are switched-on, or “expressed”, as molecular biologists would say.

Epigenetic effects can sometimes pass to grandchildren

Even more surprisingly, some data seems to suggest that grandchildren of women who were pregnant during the Hunger Winter experience some of these effects. From what we have already discussed, this strongly suggests an epigenetic mechanism.

Epigenetics – It’s not just genes that make us​

It’s not all in your DNA

Whereas the term “genome” refers to the entire DNA sequence of an organism (three billion letters of it for humans), the epigenome refers to the entire pattern of epigenetic modifications across all genes, including methyl DNA tags, methyl histone tags, acetyl histone tags and other chemical tags that we have not mentioned, in each cell type of an organism. This represents an almost unimaginable amount of information, dwarfing even the human genome project.

Hair colour in mouse can be determined by an epigenetic effect

 

[Michaelangelo]

Michaelangelo:

Techno2000:

Nothing like that is happening now in the real world.

So no mutations happens any longer?

Yes, two headed goats happens. But there’s no cold weather that’s killing off an entire species of animal except for one that just happens to have the lucky cold weather random mutation gene.

Ohhh! So that is the effect of a mutation? Why don’t you write an article and present these enlightened explanations in a academic journal within the appropriate field? I’m sure evolutionary biologists would love to understand your model of evolution.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

Either you can suggest that environmental changes do cause speciation (or macroevolition if you like)

Huh? These are limited variations within.

OK. So they are irrelevant to anything Ripperger has claimed.

 

[Freddy]

‘But the various essences or substances in the environment do not have sufficient order to be able to cause a mutation of a higher order…’ says the good father.

Hair colour in mouse can be determined by an epigenetic effect.

Should that be mousse? Anyway, not really an example of a higher order, it it…

Good effort though.