Evolution and Creationism

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Is the willingness to die for your belief any form of a certificate of that belief being true?
Yes, people can discern truth from error. Simpletons may believe everything that they hear but the prudent will use discretion and take care with what they believe and act upon, especially when it costs them everything.

See also this reasoning from the Book of Romans.
For Christ, while we were still helpless, yet died at the appointed time for the ungodly. 7 Indeed, only with difficulty does one die for a just person, though perhaps for a good person one might even find courage to die. 8 But God proves his love for us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us.

New American Bible. (2011). (Revised Edition, Ro 5:6–8). Washington, DC: The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.
Any form…is it evidence? Yes. Is it proof or a certificate? No. But, we should pay attention to facts backed up by a preponderance of evidence. The higher standard of proof is not required in order to obligate our response.
 
…we should pay attention to facts backed up by a preponderance of evidence. The higher standard of proof is not required in order to obligate our response.
Can we prove that the gods of non-Christian religions are correct? Can we prove that there are no gods?

Should we be concerned about ultimate questions (like: Where did we come from? Where are we going? Is there a judgment? Is there an afterlife?)? Yes.

Then, act upon the understanding that you have and seek greater understanding.

It would be very interesting to know more truth about past ages. But, it is more urgent and important that we prepare well for a future eternity. Death appears to be a tragedy and if that tragedy can be remedied, then we will live forever.
 
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Michaelangelo:
Is the willingness to die for your belief any form of a certificate of that belief being true?
Yes, people can discern truth from error. Simpletons may believe everything that they hear but the prudent will use discretion and take care with what they believe and act upon, especially when it costs them everything.

See also this reasoning from the Book of Romans.
For Christ, while we were still helpless, yet died at the appointed time for the ungodly. 7 Indeed, only with difficulty does one die for a just person, though perhaps for a good person one might even find courage to die. 8 But God proves his love for us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us.

New American Bible. (2011). (Revised Edition, Ro 5:6–8). Washington, DC: The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.
Any form…is it evidence? Yes. Is it proof or a certificate? No. But, we should pay attention to facts backed up by a preponderance of evidence. The higher standard of proof is not required in order to obligate our response.
The Heaven’s gate group went willingly into death for their faith. Me think they thought they “had payed attention to facts backed up by a preponderance of evidence too”.
 
The Heaven’s gate group went willingly into death for their faith. Me think they thought they “had payed attention to facts backed up by a preponderance of evidence too”.
Yes, dying for your beliefs is not a proof of your beliefs being true but they are evidence of beliefs being acted upon at great cost. Human motives are difficult to discern. Only an Almighty God can have perfect knowledge of human thoughts and motives.
 
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Is the willingness to die for your belief any form of a certificate of that belief being true?
It sure is in context to the events at the time, The first martyrs were witnesses to the events. They saw the healings, the raising of the dead, the feeding and so many more signs. They understood prophecy and what they meant. So many others were witnesses to the crucifixion, and appearances after the Resurrection as well as the dead appearing in the streets. They witnesses the darkness come over the land, the earthquakes, the tearing of the temple veil. Many did not understand the events, but they did not deny they actually happened. And many came to believe.
 
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I have some understanding of Thomist Accident and Substance. Buddhist philosophy denies the existence of Substance/Essence/Soul and only accepts the existence of Accident.

Substance/Essence/Soul is a reification of various internal models our brain constructs. Those internal models have no more reality than the ‘water’ in a mirage. That ‘water’ corresponds to one of our internal models, so we incorrectly think that it is water.

Our senses are imperfect so inevitably our internal models are also imperfect. The mismatch between our internal models and external reality are one of the causes of suffering.
Does Buddhist philosophy deny the reliability of both empirical and rational methods of doing science? If so then that extreme skeptic view must ultimately either deny that an independent (objective) reality exists or deny that it has a determinate character with which our thinking either corresponds or fails to correspond. How could such a mindset do science?
 
Our senses are imperfect but they perceive much. Our human reasoning is imperfect but it perceives much.
Much, yes, but not all.
There is declared to be a mismatch between our internal models and external reality.
I gave the example of a mirage, that is just one example of a mismatch.
So, what’s your frame of reference for understanding external reality?
I do not attempt the impossible. I work at being constantly aware that my internal models are imperfect, and try not to be surprised when those models fail.

A quote from “Funes the Memorious” by Borges:
Borges:
Not only was it difficult for him to comprehend that the generic symbol dog embraces so many unlike individuals of diverse size and form; it bothered him that the dog at three fourteen (seen from the side) should have the same name as the dog at three fifteen (seen from the front).
Funes is aware that his internal models are imperfect.
If God has revealed Himself in natural (and supernatural) revelation, shouldn’t we take notice?
I have taken notice by reading Vishnu’s revelation in the Bhagavad Gita. Have you?
If somethings are uncertain, shouldn’t we search for greater clarity. Did Jesus Christ rise from the dead? First century martyrs testify that Jesus did rise from the dead.
In Buddhism living again after you die is not difficult; reincarnation/rebirth is very common. The aim of Buddhism is not to live again after you die, instead attaining nirvana. Everything that is born dies. To avoid death you need to avoid being (re)born.
 
Does Buddhist philosophy deny the reliability of both empirical and rational methods of doing science?
No, because scientific measurements come with margins of error, reminding us that they are still imperfect models, albeit with a known error.

Newton’s model of gravity was imperfect, but it was close enough to do a lot of good work. Science is used to working with imperfect models, just as we have to work with our imperfect internal models.

I do not deny that an external reality exists, however I am also aware that I have no 100% accurate way to study that reality. I have to be content with a 95% accurate study.
 
I have taken notice by reading Vishnu’s revelation in the Bhagavad Gita. Have you?
I’m not proud of it but I read sizable portions of the Bhagavad Gita in the 1970’s.

My understanding of Buddhism is that there are many gods to appease and some of theme are quite local. Do you really want to go to all that work?

A question to consider is one that I considered then: Do all religious paths lead to the same place? Or, as Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount, “How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life! And those who find it are few.”
 
I do not deny that an external reality exists, however I am also aware that I have no 100% accurate way to study that reality. I have to be content with a 95% accurate study.
Would it a fair interpretation then to think that the Buddhist internal model has a 95% accuracy?
 
My understanding of Buddhism is that there are many gods to appease and some of theme are quite local. Do you really want to go to all that work?
Buddhism has many gods, but they do not need appeasing. You are free to ignore them if you wish. Gods are not important in Buddhism.
A question to consider is one that I considered then: Do all religious paths lead to the same place? Or, as Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount, “How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life! And those who find it are few.”
All living things – humans, gods, animals – eventually end up in nirvana. Some can do it after a few lives, some take a lot more, but everyone ends there eventually. The heavens and hells are merely other places to live while on the path to nirvana.
 
Would it a fair interpretation then to think that the Buddhist internal model has a 95% accuracy?
Of course. The original texts are not 100% accurate, and the translations of those texts are not 100% accurate either. As with Christianity and other religions a number of different interpretations of those texts can be found.
 
Flagged as just another S4. No response necessary.
Well, this might prompt a response.

You keep asking for proof that Ripperger is a creationist. Despite you linking him to an article on a creationist site. Despite his endorsment of a creationist paper. Despite all the evidence that he spends a large proportion of his time writing and lecturing on the impossibility of evolution and the need for us all to accept Genesis literally (but of course, only from a philosophical point of view don’t you know).

I have poked around the dusty corners of the interweb and checked out the good father. And now I know why he concentrates on the philosophical aspects of the theological conviction that Genesis trumps evolution. It’s because his knowledge of evolution is simply appalling. He really has very little idea whatsoever as to how the process works. And it can’t be because he is stupid. He seems quite an intelligent guy. So either he hasn’t bothered to educate himself on a matter which he spends his life denying (par for the course for so many on this forum) or he knows how it works but deliberately puts forward that which he knows to be false in order to try to convince others that it’s impossible. Personally I think it’s a mixture of the two (just as we find in this forum).

As to his creationists beliefs, he is extraordinarily careful not to admit to anything concrete that will allow others an opportunity to question the validity of his beliefs. Let’s face it, as you exhibit so well, it’s a lot easier to attempt to dismantle someone else’s position than it is to defend one’s own.

But…he let’s it slip now and then.

In a talk given a year or so back, explaining his belief as to how creation came about:

‘St. Thomas says that God created the world, he creates all the various animals. But they’re in a state where they’re not feeding yet - they’re not doing anything yet’.

Presumably because death hadn’t entered the world. So we have a lot of hungry animals. But Adam and Eve needed to eat and they were. They were eating plants but even they don’t die. They don’t? Nope, because:

‘They (the plants) are brought into a higher state by being brought into a higher being’.

Well, that makes sense to the good father. But are we talking geological ages here? Are we talking about time at all? Isn’t this a metaphor that contains theological truths but which cannot be taken literally? Ripperger is always careful to avoid being specific. But you can’t keep avoiding revealing what you actually believe all the time (as you found out). So he tells us how long all this actually took:

‘And this happens in a very short period of time - a week or so, which scripture points out’.

And there was an emphasis on ‘very’. I didn’t add that for effect.

So…he’s a creationist. He states unequivocably that God created all the animlas and Adam and Eve in seven days. And he’s your go-to guy for the alternative to evolution.


Enjoy the video.
 
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That was Thomas Aquinas philosophical Theory. It can’t be proven and there’s no clear evidence. The animals could’ve been in a weird state or every living thing was vegetarian. There are theories which can’t be explained. Sin could be only as Human death. There could’ve been Animal and Plant death before the Fall. In the Bible, Humans were made to be immortal. There was no reference to plants and Animals being immortal though. The Bible has different types of truth. Literal, Figurative and others I can’t remember. Genesis was written down by Moses but neither Moses or anyone could understand the Creation. The Creation story was very weird for everyone. Some ideas have never existed so they couldn’t be explain or understood in a better way.
 
I think most definitely plant death existed. Humans and animals had to eat plants before the Fall happened in order to exist. Sin is the separation of a God. Humans were made to be Gods “sidekicks”. If everything were to be explicitly explained in the Bible. There would be so many pages that it would be too difficult to read it all.
 
We don’t need their bodies to always prove their right. Their presence can be proven by wittinesses and culture. Alexander the Greats biography wasn’t written until 200 years after his death but we know he existed because of the Presence of Greek culture across the Middle East. Jesus existed, if he didn’t then it would be impossible for Christianity to have existed. He had 12 disciples, then they had disciples. If Jesus didn’t exist, the 12 disciples wouldn’t have existed or something of the sorts.

I think we can establish Jesus was a real person?
 
Oh sure, I’ve no issue at all with the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth.

I think the body issue above was more an appeal to divinity.
 
I think most definitely plant death existed. Humans and animals had to eat plants before the Fall happened in order to exist.
I can only requote what Ripperger said:

'…God created the world, he creates all the various animals. But they’re in a state where they’re not feeding yet - they’re not doing anything yet’.

And they hung around ‘not doing anything yet’ up to the point of the fall. And even when Adam and Eve ate plants those plants somehow didn’t die.

And please don’t ask me to explain creationism. This version or any other. You’ll need to take it up with others who believe it. O-mlly perhaps.
 
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You keep asking for proof that Ripperger is a creationist.
It is also instructive to have a look at Father Ripperger’s references in the article o_mlly linked to. Alongside the philosophy and theology references, we find Philip Johnson, Guy Berthault, John Sanford and Michael Behe.
 
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