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JRKH
Guest
I never said God doesn’t Govern all things, it’s just a question of how He chooses to do it.
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Peace
James
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James
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Namesake
Guest
OK, if you don’t like that example maybe you would like the beak of the finch example? However, immunology, which includes the idea of developmental resistance in microorganisms, is just full of examples that comport with evolutionary theory.
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strugglingalong
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You said He could let some things go on their own and only choose when He wants to involve Himself with His creation. He governs all things and there is no such thing as chance with God. You did say He could let some things go on their own apart from His governance.I never said God doesn’t Govern all things, it’s just a question of how He chooses to do it.
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James
Pax Christi tecum.
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buffalo
Guest
Some things are impossible for God
He cannot lie
He cannot deceive
I am trying to get my arms around your post. Nothing is random to Him? If He knew what Adam would look like, then Adam could not be random.
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strugglingalong
Guest
Nothing about the Most Holy Trinity appears random. What is random about 3 persons being one substance? Nothing is random about it. We may not be able to grasp it but that is the nature of mystery. However that is different that to say things are random yet that is God at work. He is orderly, not disorderly.
Pax Christi tecum.
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edwest2
Guest
No, the beak size/shape change is also built-in. A sugar beet grown in ideal conditions can have up to 60% of its weight converted into sugar. Beets found in the wild grow in varying conditions with varying results. There are many different sizes and shapes of dogs, but I can’t say a Greyhound is evolving into a Chihuahua.
God bless,
Ed
God bless,
Ed
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edwest2
Guest
God looked on His work and called it very good. Until the actual, historical Fall, man was in direct contact with God, but then, afterwards, he was separated, requiring Jesus Christ. A real, physical Jesus Christ. Not some symbolic symbol.
Jesus also refers to the days of Noe (spelling in the Bible I use), so I’m convinced it was a real event.
God bless,
Ed
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strugglingalong
Guest
I agree. The work of God is orderly and real. I too think Noah was real and there was a real flood. I think we have two parents Adam and Eve and that there weren’t pre-existing humanoids.
Science finds facts and then interprets them. There’s no telling if their interpretation and mechanisms are true. There could be other explanations.
Pax Christi tecum.
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Namesake
Guest
You win Ed. I haven’t the stamina to keep this up. But a thought occurs to me. Maybe you ought to write up your notions and present them to a peer reviewed scientific journal like, oh I don’t know, maybe Nature? But then I suppose you don’t accept such journals as authoritative so what’s the point anyway? Science is a conspiracy to kill God, right?
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edwest2
Guest
That’s it, buffalo. According to the theory, a random turn here or there and we could have all ended up as talking lizards. Yet when I read Human Persons Created in the Image of God, I’m assured of God’s infallible guidance. We were formed by the action of His will.
God bless,
Ed
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strugglingalong
Guest
Heck we could have ended up as three legged, four-eyed and six eared somethings who don’t speak or see and who have fins…we could have been anything.
Pax Christi tecum.
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JRKH
Guest
Here is the Quote of mine that you used in your post earlier.
So I think we have some miscommunication here. If God set’s things up as He wishes, which is what i said, then He has set forth the rules governing it. Therefore , even if God chose to create a certain system and allow it to function within itself “unattended” this would not assume a lack of Governance.
The Earth Revolves around the Sun. Why? Because set up the basic Laws that Govern bodies in Space. Therefore the Bodies act in accordance with God’s ordinances. god then cans simply let those laws control the planets and He can do something else.
Does that mean God cannot Change something? No just that He usually chooses not to. The Problem as I see it is that people declare God All powerful and beyond Comprehension, then in the next breath try to define God, and declare the types of tools He would or would not use in His own Creation.
The Idea that nothing can happen outside of God’s Governance is perfectly acceptable, simply because God is the First Cause, and all of Creation is within Him.
Peace
James
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Orogeny
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Namesake
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Why isn’t there evidence of such a flood?
How about Neanderthals?
Science tests the findings and always is open to other explanations.
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Orogeny
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OK, let’s try this another way. Do you find it hard to grasp how something that is random to humans is not random to God? If so, why is that hard to grasp if you can accept the mystery of the Trinity? Nothing to do specifically with randomness, but with God’s ability to do or be something that we can’t understand.
Do you believe that we should be able to understand things on the same level as God does?
Peace
Tim
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edwest2
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In an interview on youtube, Richard Dawkins comes right out and embraces those words - I want to kill god.
Hey, if the facts did indeed ‘speak for themselves,’ I’d have no problem with it. But I don’t think they are accurate. I’ve read about some credible anomolies, I’m not convinced about the dating methods and I believe in God which is forbidden in science but not in the Catholic Church. I can’t help it that Nature is reporting that most Leading Scientists Still Reject God. Did they just get out of bed one morning and think, “You know, I just don’t believe in that God stuff anymore?”
Peace,
Ed
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strugglingalong
Guest
You sound like a perfect Deist - God the watchmaker Who creates and then lets it all go on its own.
My view of Divine Providence is that God is integrally involved with His creation not only as First Cause but as governing all effects. From the same part of the Summa:
"Therefore as God is the first universal cause, not of one genus only, but of all being in general, it is impossible for anything to occur outside the order of the Divine government; but from the very fact that from one point of view something seems to evade theorder of Divine providence considered in regard to one particular cause, it must necessarily come back to that order as regards some other cause.
Reply to Objection 1. There is nothing wholly evil in the world, for evil is ever founded on good, as shown above (Question 48, Article 3). Therefore something is said to be evil through its escaping from the order of some particular good. If it wholly escaped from the order of the Divine government, it would wholly cease to exist.
Reply to Objection 2. Things are said to be fortuitous as regards some particular cause from the order of which they escape. But as to the order of Divine providence, “nothing in the world happens by chance,” as Augustine declares (QQ. 83, qu. 24)."
Pax Christi tecum.
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buffalo
Guest
I don’t think it can be.
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buffalo
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Neandethals - I would wait until more info comes in.
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Orogeny
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