Evolution and the soul

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TheoloJer

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I really want to try to avoid an evolution debate, but at the same time, would like to address a video that I saw while watching a youtube video earlier tonight.

It was from a youtube channel called ‘Discovering Religion’ and one of the episodes was basically a venting episode. In this case, the narrator was venting on what grinds his gears-- and one of them included the concept of the soul and evolution…If my interpretation is correct, he questions why human beings proclaim to have a ‘soul’ when animals do not have one-- being that, in his case, human beings are products of the evolutionary process, which we have traits derived from animals. He wants to know how do we know a soul exists?

The link is right here:
What Grinds My ( I mean ‘His’) Gears

I will point out that perhaps this source seems kind of biased, due to his vent against concepts like conversion experiences, thanking God, etc. (then again, I could be wrong).
 
The Catholic Church teaches that all living things have souls (a spirit), as a spirit is the motivator of all that is living. Humans have the highest order of souls: Rational. Animals have sensitive souls, and plants have vegetative souls.
 
I haven’t viewed the video, but this post may shed some light on the idea of a soul when it comes to the scientific desire to maintain that all that exists is only physical, and therefore no ‘soul’ can exist:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10032864&postcount=20
If you accept the existence of free will, you have to acknowledge that the universe is not 100% physical. IF the universe were 100% physical, then everything anyone ever did and all events since the big bang were completely governed by physics. Every time you think that you are thinking or feeling or choosing, it’s just inevitable and unchangeable movements of atoms in your brain. ON EVERY LEVEL. You would be a “meat computer”. Attempts to resolve this issue while maintaining that the universe is 100% physical end up redefining free-will. The only way that free will can really exist is if there is something beyond the physical- a “soul” if you will.
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TheoloJer said:
I really want to try to avoid an evolution debate, but at the same time, would like to address a video that I saw while watching a youtube video earlier tonight.

It was from a youtube channel called ‘Discovering Religion’ and one of the episodes was basically a venting episode. In this case, the narrator was venting on what grinds his gears-- and one of them included the concept of the soul and evolution…If my interpretation is correct, he questions why human beings proclaim to have a ‘soul’ when animals do not have one-- being that, in his case, human beings are products of the evolutionary process, which we have traits derived from animals. He wants to know how do we know a soul exists?

The link is right here:
What Grinds My ( I mean ‘His’) Gears

I will point out that perhaps this source seems kind of biased, due to his vent against concepts like conversion experiences, thanking God, etc. (then again, I could be wrong).
Click to expand...
Who says animals don’t have souls? Catholics believe they do. In fact Catholics believe than human beings are animals, albeit rational ones. He seems to be discounting Cartesian mechanical philosophy rather than the concept of the soul, per se, and there we can agree.

First things first. The Soul(of anything) is the active principle(form) and motive force of any material body. Stones don’t move of their own volition, while animals(and in a certain sense Plants when they grow) do.

For Catholics the Rational Soul of Man is what distinguishes man from rocks, plants and lower animals. It is why the matter in our bodies(which we share with other material beings) is arranged in the way it is and not another.

This concept of the Soul as understood by Catholics would not be denied by any modern philosophy unless it also denied that there was anything beyond the material world.
 
The_Reginator said:
I haven’t viewed the video, but this post may shed some light on the idea of a soul when it comes to the scientific desire to maintain that all that exists is only physical, and therefore no ‘soul’ can exist:
If you accept the existence of free will, you have to acknowledge that the universe is not 100% physical. IF the universe were 100% physical, then everything anyone ever did and all events since the big bang were completely governed by physics. Every time you think that you are thinking or feeling or choosing, it’s just inevitable and unchangeable movements of atoms in your brain. ON EVERY LEVEL. You would be a "meat computer"
Click to expand...
How would the fact that we posses a “non-physical computer” such as the sould or the mind in any way give us free will?
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belorg said:
How would the fact that we posses a “non-physical computer” such as the soul or the mind in any way give us free will?
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The soul isn’t a computer nor even analogous to one as it is made of super-natural substance. Computers are on/off switches they depend on the material world.
A soul is created by its creator as a unique thing, you as a person are not me nor can you ever be me, your personality is unique. The soul is like a personality in the sense of its uniqueness to each individual and its preservation of the personality of the person after death. The souls substance must be made of the same substance as its super-natural creator is made of, except it has been created and given a unique character in each individual as well as the ability to act on its own will - independently of the will of its creator, demands of the natural world, demands of other beings, people, plants or animals…
As an individual you have the ability to choose, to use you will to act freely or even to choose to act as a slave if you wish.
 
pig said:
The soul isn’t a computer nor even analogous to one as it is made of super-natural substance. Computers are on/off switches they depend on the material world.
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So, to repeat my question: what diffrence does it make whether the computer is made of flesh, metal, silicon or super-natural substances?
 
Theophorus said:
First things first. The Soul(of anything) is the active principle(form) and motive force of any material body. Stones don’t move of their own volition, while animals(and in a certain sense Plants when they grow) do.
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You are describing animism, the belief in supernatural animating forces or spirits, which is probably the most primitive of all religions.

Life is now explained entirely by self-sustaining chemical processes such as metabolism without any need whatsoever for the supernatural.
 
belorg said:
So, to repeat my question: what diffrence does it make whether the computer is made of flesh, metal, silicon or super-natural substances?
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What difference does it make to what?
A computer is totally the sum of its parts, my computer at least has no free will.
A human soul is of the same substance as its maker, it has the power to will things, and has been given the power of freedom af action/choice.
Again my computer can do neither of these things.
 
inocente said:
You are describing animism, the belief in supernatural animating forces or spirits, which is probably the most primitive of all religions.

Life is now explained entirely by self-sustaining chemical processes such as metabolism without any need whatsoever for the supernatural.
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Animinism is not a religon, it is a term coinned in the 18th century by materialists like yourself to describe the concept of souls in things. In so far as the term covers souls in general Christianity does have an animistic aspect. Sorry if christian belief in souls is a problem for you.

What it is not, especially in Thomistic philosophy is a divinisation of animals or things. The form(soul) informs the body and gives the thing its “whatness”(answers the question what it is?) in this absolute sense it is the motive force of a living body. It does not refer to the efficent/proximate cause of motion namely the energy generated in the body itself to power neurones and muscles etc.
 
Theophorus said:
Who says animals don’t have souls? Catholics believe they do. In fact Catholics believe than human beings are animals, albeit rational ones.
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Some Christians assert this based on the account of the creation as told in Genesis chapter one and two. On the third day and fifth day it is stated that Yahweh created the plants and non-human animals. On the sixth day when Yahweh is said to have created the first man it is written that he created man in his own image and later in chapter 2 it is written that Yahweh gave man a soul.
Genesis 2:7:
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
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Now it is also written that God gave the animals the breath of life ((Genesis 1:30; 6:17, so on…). Some infer from this that they have souls. But some also say that the absence of an assertion of an animals soul in the bible is because they don’t have souls.
 
pig said:
What difference does it make to what?
A computer is totally the sum of its parts, my computer at least has no free will.
A human soul is of the same substance as its maker, it has the power to will things, and has been given the power of freedom af action/choice.
Again my computer can do neither of these things.
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And why is the ‘soul’ not totally the sum of its parts (which are of the same substance as its maker)? How does it follow that the soul has free will?
 
belorg said:
And why is the ‘soul’ not totally the sum of its parts (which are of the same substance as its maker)? How does it follow that the soul has free will?
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Because eternity does not have parts. It follows because the substance is a creative substance - it wills. Human souls are created from the same substance, they too will. Logic alone says that creating many wills will create many wills, the object of creating a will is to set it free. :bigyikes:
 
pig said:
Because eternity does not have parts. It follows because the substance is a creative substance - it wills. Human souls are created from the same substance, they too will. Logic alone says that creating many wills will create many wills, the object of creating a will is to set it free. :bigyikes:
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If eternity does not have parts and human souls have the same substance as the creative substance (which I presume is God), then what is the difference between human souls and God? Logic alone says that if X and Y have the same substance S and S does not have parts then X and Y are the same. So, not only can there be no diffrence between person X and God, but neither can there be any diffrence between person X and person Y and every other person created. So, by your logic, creating many wils is simply impossible.
 
TheoloJer said:
I really want to try to avoid an evolution debate, but at the same time, would like to address a video that I saw while watching a youtube video earlier tonight.

It was from a youtube channel called ‘Discovering Religion’ and one of the episodes was basically a venting episode. In this case, the narrator was venting on what grinds his gears-- and one of them included the concept of the soul and evolution…If my interpretation is correct, he questions why human beings proclaim to have a ‘soul’ when animals do not have one-- being that, in his case, human beings are products of the evolutionary process, which we have traits derived from animals. He wants to know how do we know a soul exists?

The link is right here:
What Grinds My ( I mean ‘His’) Gears

I will point out that perhaps this source seems kind of biased, due to his vent against concepts like conversion experiences, thanking God, etc. (then again, I could be wrong).
Click to expand...
This person needs an encounter with the living God. That’s all there is to it. There’s no point in discussing this further.

God is real, but most leading scientists disbelieve in God, especially biologists.

Remember the lie that is repeated here on a regular basis: science is silent about God. There are textbooks that deny our true origin.

Peace,
Ed
 
belorg said:
If eternity does not have parts and human souls have the same substance as the creative substance (which I presume is God), then what is the difference between human souls and God? Logic alone says that if X and Y have the same substance S and S does not have parts then X and Y are the same. So, not only can there be no diffrence between person X and God, but neither can there be any diffrence between person X and person Y and every other person created. So, by your logic, creating many wils is simply impossible.
Click to expand...
I don’t follow him either, but the human soul while immaterial and so simple is not of the same substance as God even though it shares the characteristics of simplicity and immateriality. Immateriality is not in itself a substance. Human souls are contingent immaterial substances as they were created, while the Divine substance is uncreated and non-contingent. eternity does not have material “parts” it does have individual immaterial substances(God, Angels, and Souls)
 
belorg said:
If eternity does not have parts and human souls have the same substance as the creative substance (which I presume is God), then what is the difference between human souls and God? Logic alone says that if X and Y have the same substance S and S does not have parts then X and Y are the same. So, not only can there be no diffrence between person X and God, but neither can there be any diffrence between person X and person Y and every other person created. So, by your logic, creating many wils is simply impossible.
Click to expand...
If eternity does not have parts and human souls have the same substance as the creative substance (which I presume is God), then what is the difference between human souls and God? Logic alone says that if X and Y have the same substance S and S does not have parts then X and Y are the same.
Click to expand...
Exactly, and not at all.
There is no difference between the substance of mans soul and God, both are spirit. Mans soul is created to live in God, God is spirit - mans soul is spirit.
But mans soul is mans soul and not God. Mans soul is created. God always is.
Logic alone says that if X and Y have the same substance S and S does not have parts then X and Y are the same.
Click to expand...
Exactly, there is no difference between x and y or between mans soul and God. All are spirit. x and y created. God, uncreated.
So, not only can there be no diffrence between person X and God, but neither can there be any diffrence between person X and person Y and every other person created. So, by your logic, creating many wils is simply impossible.
Click to expand...
And now you have shifted the goal-posts from substance and will to persons. A persons will and their souls substance are the same in everyone. Everyone has a will, can create and determine. But persons are unique, they are the unique part of the soul. Each person can will differently though the quality called will has the same source for all.
 
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