Evolution In The Classroom

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I cannot find any relevant information on this paper. What journal published it? If none, then where can I find it?

As for your claims, well… I’m glad that you’re actually doing some research to try and back them up. If you’re right, I hope you find success.

Until then, I’m going to trust the evidence when I have access, and the scientific community when I don’t.
Don’t bother.

talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC371_1.html
talkorigins.org/faqs/dinosaur/flesh.html

The “soft tissue” discovered in some fossils during the last few years is hardly of any concern, although it’s certainly jumped all over by creationists. What was found in the fossils consists of several fossilized cells resembling blood cells and also some proteins left over.

C14 dating still has no effect on such old things though, as the half life is short enough that it is unreliable after only about 40k years. I stand by my statement that the poster is either lying or simply ignorant about his own knowledge. The fact that he brought up thermodynamics proves it beyond doubt.
 
That human beings do not possess free-will.

That giraffes evolved because they had to stretch their necks to reach leaves at the top of trees.

That evolution explains the origin and therefore destiny of human life.
Strawman.

How is that an “atheistic fantasy with no real meaning or value” exactly?

Origin, but not destiny (if you believe in that sort of thing).
 
True. Stephen J. Gould must have died sometime in the late 1800’s. That’s when he conducted his survey of textbooks finding 100% of them teaching that giraffe’s needed to eat leaves on the top of trees.

Simmons commented in 1994 that every evolutionist since Darwin (and up to his time) believed in the tree-top story.

Evolutionary theory was “more certain than gravity” back in 1994 also.
So there was false speculation on why a particular trait arose.
 
I believe the current theory is that it had more to do with some bizarre mating ritual- most giraffes feed at around 50% of their height anyway.

Evolution only explains the diversity of life
Evolution tries to explain the diversity of life.

Idvolution - God set the language of DNA and some basic types of life and the fantastic power and adaptive capabilities of this language explain the diversity of life.
 
Be sure to throw in these links
  1. paleo.cc/paluxy/delk.htm
    2.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html
  2. Just have them google “hobbit foot”
‘1) “The second law of thermodynamics excludes evolution”’

The second law of thermodynamics applies only to heat transfer- this is like bringing up Heisenberg when a sports announcer says that a team’s victory is a “sure thing”- a complete misapplication.
We know that decay is an ongoing process and the destiny of the universe. Life tries to work against this decay but ultimately gives in.
 
We know that decay is an ongoing process and the destiny of the universe. Life tries to work against this decay but ultimately gives in.
Decay is completely outside of the equation. The second law of thermodynamics simply states the fact that when energy is transferred, some is lost- for example, when I drive anywhere I’m transferring chemical energy via combustion to mechanical energy, which moves the car. However, some energy is inevitably lost to friction- in fact, unless I’m driving up hill, almost all of the energy is lost to friction. That fact that said energy is essentially “gone” is the point of the second law of thermodynamics.
 
Decay is completely outside of the equation. The second law of thermodynamics simply states the fact that when energy is transferred, some is lost- for example, when I drive anywhere I’m transferring chemical energy via combustion to mechanical energy, which moves the car. However, some energy is inevitably lost to friction- in fact, unless I’m driving up hill, almost all of the energy is lost to friction. That fact that said energy is essentially “gone” is the point of the second law of thermodynamics.
Would you support the info in this link (Darwin’s Predictions) being shown in the classroom?
 
Would you support the info in this link (Darwin’s Predictions) being shown in the classroom?
When the given information can be written in a peer-reviewed document and presented for criticism by the greater scientific community as a whole, rather than on a private website, it’s legitimacy may be further examined. Just from the first claim, the author seems to imply that since the single major effort to re-create life did not yield life, life arising naturally is impossible- but this claim is of course invalid.
 
When the given information can be written in a peer-reviewed document and presented for criticism by the greater scientific community as a whole, rather than on a private website, it’s legitimacy may be further examined. Just from the first claim, the author seems to imply that since the single major effort to re-create life did not yield life, life arising naturally is impossible- but this claim is of course invalid.
How about this? Would you want students to hear this interview?

Transcript of McWhorter-Behe Blogginheads Discussion
 
I totally agree with the statement that evolution has nothing directly to do with atheism or theism. Evolution is about the physical change of life on earth over time. It does not prove or disprove the existence of God. I also disagree with fundamentalists who argue that if the creation story in Genesis II is not literally true, then the rest of the Bible is not true. So why did Jesus teach us in parables? Does each parable come from a true story involving real people, or does the story in each parable have a deeper meaning? One needs to heed the admonition of St. Augustine about imposing our pet interpretations on the Bible.

I think the problem arises from the duality about the laws of nature. The universe is both ordered and chaotic, both order and chaos are creative processes. Chaos enters the picture because the laws of nature are nonlinear and bifurcate to different paths, and there are huge number of possible interactions and outcomes. A pot of boiling water is initially very chaotic, but as time passes, the boiling water forms regularized patterns of circulation.

Mutations (random processes) in the DNA either produce beneficial or harmful changes in the organism. Mutations in viruses, bacteria, and insect pests are observed rapidly since the reproductive cycle of these organisms are very short to human life spans. The beneficial changes are passed onto the next generation; this is why bacteria become resistant to antibiotics. Drugs can kill say 99.9% of the bacteria, but the surviving 0.1% can reproduce.
The earth has had several mass extinctions, and life has evolved from simple one-celled organism to very complex beings called humans over 4.5 billion years. After each mass extinction, the surviving life forms mutated very rapidly to become even more complex.

So where does God enter the picture? God, in some mysterious fashion, has endowed the laws of nature to have properties very conducive to complex life so we can observe it. Suppose a parent placed an electro-magnet under a few sheets of paper, and iron filings on top of the paper. The parent asks a child to enter a room, and presses a switch connecting a battery to the electro-magnet, and the child watches in amazement as the iron filings arrange themselves.
In my humble opinion, God keeps the universe in existence, but has endowed matter and energy with finely tuned properties. So matter, from carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, etc undergoing both ordered and chaotic conditions has an innate tendency to become more complexly organized. So in a sense, God is continuously creating in an indirect manner just as a magnet creates patterns from randomly distributed iron filings.

Perhaps Jesus came to earth, as the new Adam, to redirect human evolution. He directs our spiritual evolution from natural selfishness to be unselfish, to love God with our whole being and love all our neighbors.
 
WINNING BY A NECK: SEXUAL SELECTION IN THE EVOLUTION OF GIRAFFE
ROBERT E. SIMMONS AND LUE SCHEEPERS
Department of Zoology. Uppsala University. Villavägen 9. S-752 36 Uppsala, Sweden

Submitted October 14. 1994: Revised January 10. 1996: Accepted January 18, 1996
Abstract.—A classic example of extreme morphological adaptation to the environment is the neck of the giraffe (Giraffli camelopardalis). a trait that most biologists since Darwin have attributed to competition with other mammalian browsers. However, in searching for present- day evidence for the maintenance of the long neck, we find that during the dry season (when feeding competition should he most intense) giraffe generally feed from low shrubs, not tall trees: females spend over 50% of their time feeding with their necks horizontal: both sexes feed faster and most often with their necks bent; and other sympatric browsers show little foraging height partitioning. Each result suggests that long necks did not evolve specifically for feeding at higher levels. Isometric scaling of neck-to-leg ratios from the okapi Okapiajohnswni indicates that giraffe neck length has increased proportionately more than leg length—an unexpected and physiologically costly method of gaining height. We thus find little critical support for the Darwinian feeding competition idea.

… never heard of this before and it had nothing to do with evolution. Interesting.
That is actually interesting. However, this would not be the first time Darwin was wrong! It’s important to remember that Darwin was just a guy with an idea, he was not infallible and his theory of natural selection is accepted as incomplete given the modern evidence anyway. In other words, him being wrong about one specific notion does not invalidate the theory that has been supported by many other people over the last century.

Looking into this more, it looks like several explanations exist, and the “reaching food” hypothesis is indeed not well supported. I found a good paper someone wrote on the subject here:

www1.pacific.edu/~e-buhals/GIRAFFE2.htm
 
The Science of Denial
Code:
                           Scientists sometimes find themselves wishing things were different. In one sense that’s a thoroughly unremarkable observation. After all, scientists are human, and humans have always found themselves wishing things were different.
But what if some of the things scientists wish were different are the very things they have devoted themselves to studying? In other words, forget about salaries, teaching loads, and grant funding. What if some scientists want the brute facts of their own field of study to be other than what they really are?
As odd as it may seem, particularly to non-scientists, that tension between preference and reality has always been a part of doing science. Like everyone else, scientists don’t just have ideas—they favor them… even promote them. And for scientists, as for everyone else, sometimes those cherished ideas are just plain wrong.
Code:
                                                       For decades now, a growing minority of scientists have argued that the standard explanations of biological origins are prime examples of this—cherished ideas that are spectacularly wrong. That raises an interesting question. If these ideas are really so wrong, why do so many experts affirm them?
Some, of course, would call this a false paradox. By their way of thinking, the mere fact that so many experts accept these ideas shows that they can’t be badly wrong. But paradigm shifts do happen in science, and every time they do the world is treated to the memorable spectacle of lots of experts being badly wrong.

more…
 
The Science of Denial
Code:
                           Scientists sometimes find themselves wishing things were different. In one sense that’s a thoroughly unremarkable observation. After all, scientists are human, and humans have always found themselves wishing things were different.
But what if some of the things scientists wish were different are the very things they have devoted themselves to studying? In other words, forget about salaries, teaching loads, and grant funding. What if some scientists want the brute facts of their own field of study to be other than what they really are?
As odd as it may seem, particularly to non-scientists, that tension between preference and reality has always been a part of doing science. Like everyone else, scientists don’t just have ideas—they favor them… even promote them. And for scientists, as for everyone else, sometimes those cherished ideas are just plain wrong.
Code:
                                                       For decades now, a growing minority of scientists have argued that the standard explanations of biological origins are prime examples of this—cherished ideas that are spectacularly wrong. That raises an interesting question. If these ideas are really so wrong, why do so many experts affirm them?
Some, of course, would call this a false paradox. By their way of thinking, the mere fact that so many experts accept these ideas shows that they can’t be badly wrong. But paradigm shifts do happen in science, and every time they do the world is treated to the memorable spectacle of lots of experts being badly wrong.

more…
Oh please get your information from sites that are not OBVIOUSLY biased for once. That post was pure BS.
Not to mention this:
Scientists sometimes find themselves wishing things were different. In one sense that’s a thoroughly unremarkable observation. After all, scientists are human, and humans have always found themselves wishing things were different.
I mean, talk about irony. You think evolution is wrong (regardless of evidence) because you believe in a literal interpretation of genesis. Wishing things were different indeed.
 
Expert advise is useful, but I would like to continue enjoying the liberty of making up my own mind. Besides, scientists have been wrong about major theories plenty of times in the past. If we were to go by scientific consensus, eugenics would have remained the law of the land.
In the sense you are thinking of Eugenics, it is not a scientific theory. It was a social political rationalization for racism and population control which reached its apex in the Holocaust.

The SCIENCE of Eugenics was basically sound. That is that humans follow genetic laws as other living organisms do.

These ideas were perverted to the pseudoscientific notions of racial supremacy and purity.

I am a Catholic. I understand the science behind the theory of evolution. It can’t be proven with every living organism just as the theory of gravity cant be proven with every atom in the universe. I have no problem believing evolution is the mechanism chosen by the Creator. I do not need Science to verify my Faith. God could use any mechanisms he wanted to create the world.
 
In the sense you are thinking of Eugenics, it is not a scientific theory. It was a social political rationalization for racism and population control which reached its apex in the Holocaust.

The SCIENCE of Eugenics was basically sound. That is that humans follow genetic laws as other living organisms do.

These ideas were perverted to the pseudoscientific notions of racial supremacy and purity.

I am a Catholic. I understand the science behind the theory of evolution. It can’t be proven with every living organism just as the theory of gravity cant be proven with every atom in the universe. I have no problem believing evolution is the mechanism chosen by the Creator. I do not need Science to verify my Faith. God could use any mechanisms he wanted to create the world.
What God could do is not the issue. Never was. What did God do? Do you know what the Catholic Church actually teaches about this subject? The answer is not multiple choice. You, and other Catholics, do not need anti-theists to attack Church teaching, which occurs here regularly.

Peace,
Ed
 
Sigh. This really is pointless…
You guys don’t seem to understand the theory, and don’t seem to want to understand it, so I give up. 🤷
Hi Liquidpele. Brilliant reply. I thought the reason I laugh at the idea of evolutionism was because I understand it too well.
 
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