Evolution In The Classroom

[cassini]

Oh please. Unless you were using heavy sarcasm, your post shows quite the opposite.
Here’s a basic intro if you’re actually interested: youtube.com/watch?v=vss1VKN2rf8

For you Liquidpepe I watched that video. What a con job. It begins by showing the existence of variation of species and the ability of species to adjust to a particular environment. Nobody on earth disputes or denied this fact on nature and that within species there is a mechanism to adjust.

It then introduces the term MUTATION. It says nearly all mutations are neutral with no effect on the species. It says nothing about mutations being helpful or harmful. This is because a helpful mutation is as rare as hen’s teeth or a snake’s ears, and that harmful mutations outnumber helpful ones 100 to 0.

It suggests to the mind of the gullible that a moth could become a woodpecker if these adjustments to the environment went on for enough time. It doesn’t actually say this, but will not object if the viewer makes this stupid conclusion. It then shows how the banana was cultivated. It came from an earlier type of banana. Big deal, ABSOLUTE PROOF FOR EVOLUTION that is, a banana from a non banana at some stage. It says nothing about all those thousands of mutations of fruit flies that did not lead to bees or wasps or chickens but useless mutated, non-functional FRUIT FLIES.

In other words liquidpele, this video is an insult to the intelligence if it thinks it explains how elephants evolved. It tries to fool the gullible into thinking it explains something called evolution of kinds.

 

[liquidpele]

For you Liquidpepe I watched that video. What a con job. It begins by showing the existence of variation of species and the ability of species to adjust to a particular environment. Nobody on earth disputes or denied this fact on nature and that within species there is a mechanism to adjust.

It then introduces the term MUTATION. It says nearly all mutations are neutral with no effect on the species. It says nothing about mutations being helpful or harmful. This is because a helpful mutation is as rare as hen’s teeth or a snake’s ears, and that harmful mutations outnumber helpful ones 100 to 0.

It suggests to the mind of the gullible that a moth could become a woodpecker if these adjustments to the environment went on for enough time. It doesn’t actually say this, but will not object if the viewer makes this stupid conclusion. It then shows how the banana was cultivated. It came from an earlier type of banana. Big deal, ABSOLUTE PROOF FOR EVOLUTION that is, a banana from a non banana at some stage. It says nothing about all those thousands of mutations of fruit flies that did not lead to bees or wasps or chickens but useless mutated, non-functional FRUIT FLIES.

In other words liquidpele, this video is an insult to the intelligence if it thinks it explains how elephants evolved. It tries to fool the gullible into thinking it explains something called evolution of kinds.

Thank you for watching the video.

The video did not say that positive mutations are not rare. This is a well known fact. However, the rarity is why changes take a long time, otherwise you’d see species changing rapidly and people wouldn’t be able to deny evidence nearly as much.

You expecting bees/wasps from fruit flies just shows that you have unreasonable expectations. Perhaps you believe evolution had to take place in 6000 years or something? 4 billion is a very big number.

 

[Calliso]

Thank you for watching the video.

The video did not say that positive mutations are not rare. This is a well known fact. However, the rarity is why changes take a long time, otherwise you’d see species changing rapidly and people wouldn’t be able to deny evidence nearly as much.

You expecting bees/wasps from fruit flies just shows that you have unreasonable expectations. Perhaps you believe evolution had to take place in 6000 years or something? 4 billion is a very big number.

Yep these changes take place over very very long time scales.
So if people are expecting to actually be able to see in a few human generations one species of animal change into another then yeah their expectations are unreasonable. Of course that does seem to be exactly what some people seem to expect.

 

[buffalo]

Yep these changes take place over very very long time scales.
So if people are expecting to actually be able to see in a few human generations one species of animal change into another then yeah their expectations are unreasonable. Of course that does seem to be exactly what some people seem to expect.

Time once again to play the Richard Dawkins Mutation Challenge.

 

[rossum]

It then introduces the term MUTATION. It says nearly all mutations are neutral with no effect on the species.

The video is correct, the vast majority of mutations in eukaryotes are neutral. The average human has about 100 - 150 mutations of which only 5 or so have any effect, the rest are neutral having no effect.

It says nothing about mutations being helpful or harmful. This is because a helpful mutation is as rare as hen’s teeth or a snake’s ears, and that harmful mutations outnumber helpful ones 100 to 0.

A neutral mutation is, by definition, neither helpful nor harmful. Of the non-neutral mutations the great majority are harmful in a given environment. Your 100 to 0 figure is of course false; the number of beneficial mutations is greater than zero: Apolipoprotein AI Milano and HbC are both beneficial mutations in humans. Everyone agrees that the number of beneficial mutations is very small, but in a population of six billion humans they will appear from time to time. Once a beneficial mutation appears it will tend to spread through the population.

rossum

 

[StAnastasia]

Idvolution - God set the language of DNA and some basic types of life and the fantastic power and adaptive capabilities of this language explain the diversity of life.

buffalo, did you jsut make that word up? What is “idvolution”?

 

[buffalo]

buffalo, did you jsut make that word up? What is “idvolution”?

Yes I coined the word. Just remember you heard it here first.

 

[severntofall]

Yes, exactly. It’s a violation of church and state and it’s state-sponsored indoctrination in atheistic thought.

Are we surprised that all of the atheists on CAF are ardent supporters of evolutionary theory and cannot accept the slightest criticism to it?

Problem is, virtually all criticism of evolution tends to be the result of a misunderstanding on the part of the critic or blatant dishonest.
Of course, as it turns out, there are millions of christians who believe in evolution and god all at the same time. The theories are not mutually exclusive.

Stolen from the BioLogos Foundation: “Organisms have changed significantly over time. In rocks more than 1 billion years old, only fossils of single-celled organisms were found. Moving to rocks that are about 550 million years old, fossils of simple, multicellular animals can be found. At 500 million years ago, ancient fish without jawbones surface; and at 400 million years ago, fish with jaws are found. Gradually, new animals appear: amphibians at 350 million years ago, reptiles at 300 million years ago, mammals at 230 million years ago and birds at 150 million years ago.1 Even within these groups, major changes have occurred through time. For example, dinosaurs dominated the reptile fossils from 230 to 65 million years ago; early birds had teeth and tails; and early mammals were no larger than mice.2 As the rocks become more and more recent, the fossils look increasingly like the animals we observe today”.

Evolution is the only theory that explains the above facts and the evidence for it is astoundings and growing. Of course, evolution is fasifiable in that if we ever witness a species just appear out of thin air we’ll know that creationism is true.

 

[severntofall]

For you Liquidpepe I watched that video. What a con job. It begins by showing the existence of variation of species and the ability of species to adjust to a particular environment. Nobody on earth disputes or denied this fact on nature and that within species there is a mechanism to adjust.

It then introduces the term MUTATION. It says nearly all mutations are neutral with no effect on the species. It says nothing about mutations being helpful or harmful. This is because a helpful mutation is as rare as hen’s teeth or a snake’s ears, and that harmful mutations outnumber helpful ones 100 to 0.

It suggests to the mind of the gullible that a moth could become a woodpecker if these adjustments to the environment went on for enough time. It doesn’t actually say this, but will not object if the viewer makes this stupid conclusion. It then shows how the banana was cultivated. It came from an earlier type of banana. Big deal, ABSOLUTE PROOF FOR EVOLUTION that is, a banana from a non banana at some stage. It says nothing about all those thousands of mutations of fruit flies that did not lead to bees or wasps or chickens but useless mutated, non-functional FRUIT FLIES.

In other words liquidpele, this video is an insult to the intelligence if it thinks it explains how elephants evolved. It tries to fool the gullible into thinking it explains something called evolution of kinds.

I’d love to see the evidence you have that a mutation cannot be beneficial or an explaination for the existence of vestigial organs. I’d love to hear why most of the species your god “created” went extinct before the human species ever even existed. I’d love to hear of a single known instance of a species coming into existence ex nihlo as you appear to be suggesting.

 

[severntofall]

How about this? Would you want students to hear this interview?

Transcript of McWhorter-Behe Blogginheads Discussion

I have to admit that I’m curious as to just what a creationist would accept as evidence for evolution? If you applies the standard most evolutionist seem to be insisting upon, I don’t think you could prove the existence of microwaves or gravity (both are false theories to explain reality without mentioning god).

 

[cantheist]

It is now known that the bacteria of DNA have a built in latent capablilty. Also bacteria quickly exchange this information and simply adapt. What is the chemical makeup of nylonase? Perhaps a new combination of existing elements?

Perhaps a new combination of existing is evolution? hmmm
Nylonase is not the same look into it for your self.

 

[cassini]

I’d love to see the evidence you have that a mutation cannot be beneficial or an explaination for the existence of vestigial organs. I’d love to hear why most of the species your god “created” went extinct before the human species ever even existed. I’d love to hear of a single known instance of a species coming into existence ex nihlo as you appear to be suggesting.

OK sevenfoil, you got me here. I am not a biologist so have no direct experience in this field so I have to rely on what I read. Now maybe the documentation I read has been one great fraud to destroy the reputation of good mutations, I do not know. Maybe biologists have a grudge against all those good mutations that began a mutated process to an animal’s digestive system, I do not know.

you ask me a question then that presumes I believe in evolution. I do not believe species went extinct before humans existed. After they existed yes, not before.

On the Ex nihilo request severntofail, you have me again. You see all these creatures were already made before any human could witness it happening.

There are two routes to knowing severntofail, revelation and reasoning. I was reared in a faith that I believed in. My reasoning and study within the limits of known science concluded things could not have evolved so that faith in ex nihilo creation seemed the only answer. I am happy with that and will die with that.

Atheism is hard work. I read of a guy in America who gave it up to give his mind a bit of peace.

 

[A_Dancer_Whirls]

Oh please. Unless you were using heavy sarcasm, your post shows quite the opposite.
Here’s a basic intro if you’re actually interested: youtube.com/watch?v=vss1VKN2rf8

After reading the linked post i have to agree with liquidpele, there seems to be a misunderstanding on your part. Also you could find answers to a lot of the questions you asked with just a little basic research. It also seems you you are confusing evolution and abiogenesis which are two unrelated theories.

 

[cassini]

I have to admit that I’m curious as to just what a creationist would accept as evidence for evolution? If you applies the standard most evolutionist seem to be insisting upon, I don’t think you could prove the existence of microwaves or gravity (both are false theories to explain reality without mentioning god).

Well for a start I would believe if the fossil record showed the billions of transition fossils that should be there if evolution were an ongoing process throughout the ages. The idea that one can find 1,000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 fossils that are perfect species and that palaeontologists can only scrape together 100 bits they say are transitional fossils, 50 of which turned out to be frauds, shows me where the truth lies. One of the funniest of all hominid fossil jokes is when they found this skull and announced a monkey-man. Another expert came to look at it and announced it was an elephant KNEE-CAP.

 

[A_Dancer_Whirls]

OK sevenfoil, you got me here. I am not a biologist so have no direct experience in this field so I have to rely on what I read. Now maybe the documentation I read has been one great fraud to destroy the reputation of good mutations, I do not know. Maybe biologists have a grudge against all those good mutations that began a mutated process to an animal’s digestive system, I do not know.

you ask me a question then that presumes I believe in evolution. I do not believe species went extinct before humans existed. After they existed yes, not before.

On the Ex nihilo request severntofail, you have me again. You see all these creatures were already made before any human could witness it happening.

There are two routes to knowing severntofail, revelation and reasoning. I was reared in a faith that I believed in. My reasoning and study within the limits of known science concluded things could not have evolved so that faith in ex nihilo creation seemed the only answer. I am happy with that and will die with that.

Atheism is hard work. I read of a guy in America who gave it up to give his mind a bit of peace.

Do yourself a big favour, when you read a paper make sure it is peer reviewed. This will ensure you are only reading real science and not propaganda, like Kent Hovind’s stuff for example.

ADW.

 

[A_Dancer_Whirls]

Well for a start I would believe if the fossil record showed the billions of transition fossils that should be there if evolution were an ongoing process throughout the ages. The idea that one can find 1,000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 fossils that are perfect species and that palaeontologists can only scrape together 100 bits they say are transitional fossils, 50 of which turned out to be frauds, shows me where the truth lies. One of the funniest of all hominid fossil jokes is when they found this skull and announced a monkey-man. Another expert came to look at it and announced it was an elephant KNEE-CAP.

There is no shortage of transitional fossils?

anthropologynet.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/fossil-hominid-skulls.jpg

theistic-evolution.com/pages5455.jpg

 

[rossum]

OK sevenfoil, you got me here. I am not a biologist so have no direct experience in this field so I have to rely on what I read. Now maybe the documentation I read has been one great fraud to destroy the reputation of good mutations, I do not know. Maybe biologists have a grudge against all those good mutations that began a mutated process to an animal’s digestive system, I do not know.

I previously mentioned two beneficial mutations in humans. Here is a bit more detail for you:

1 Apolipoprotein AI - Milano is a mutation that helps humans deal with excessive fat in their diet. See A Rare Protein Mutation offers new Hope for Heart Disease Patients.

2 HbC is a mutation in haemoglobin that helps protect against Malaria, it is beneficial in Malarial areas. See malariaPlasmodium falciparum.

Beneficial mutations are indeed rare, but they do exist.

rossum

 

[buffalo]

Do yourself a big favour, when you read a paper make sure it is peer reviewed. This will ensure you are only reading real science and not propaganda, like Kent Hovind’s stuff for example.

ADW.

I wish I could totally trust all the peer-reviewed stuff, but links I have shown show the current problem with it. However, many of my links are peer-reviewed.

 

[reggieM]

It also seems you you are confusing evolution and abiogenesis which are two unrelated theories.

The origin of life is unrelated to the development of life? Aside from all of the various social evils, evolutionary theory fosters schitzophrenia and paranoia. Schitzophrenia through the pretense that whatever caused the origin of life from inert matter had nothing to do with it subsequent and immediate development. So a wall is built between the two with the hope that nobody will actually look over wall and discover some ugly truths. Paranoia – similarialy in the fear that someone will actually link the two ideas and as a result, discover how absurd both really are.

 

[cassini]

I previously mentioned two beneficial mutations in humans. Here is a bit more detail for you:

1 Apolipoprotein AI - Milano is a mutation that helps humans deal with excessive fat in their diet. See A Rare Protein Mutation offers new Hope for Heart Disease Patients.

2 HbC is a mutation in haemoglobin that helps protect against Malaria, it is beneficial in Malarial areas. See Haemoglobin C protects against clinical Plasmodium falciparum malaria.

Beneficial mutations are indeed rare, but they do exist.

rossum

Great Rossum. So you are saying, with all these mutations we might become monkeys again, or worse, one handed, one legged freaks that work?