I think you’re well aware of the evidence.
And the assumptions are reasonable. Certainly more reasonable than swirling particles coming together in just the right way. You’re right though, we all choose what to believe. I’m open to just about anything, even the whirlwind, but I’m not going to turn my brain off when the evidence supports common ancestry, the Creation story is clearly poetic allegory, and the Church doesn’t teach otherwise.Sure.
Maybe I missed it, but I haven’t seen anyone here make a strictly materialist argument. I sure haven’t. But you routinely respond to my posts as if I am. I’ll make it clear for you: I believe the Christian God is the Creator of Nature. Do I subscribe to peculiar beliefs grounded in whimsical interpretations of old poems? No. And there’s a lot of room for friendly discussion there.
Well… you’re just wrong there. Try to take in some ideas, Ed. There’s no Illuminati out to get you.
Do you speak authoritatively for the Church? I’ve yet to see a binding Church teaching that says Adam couldn’t have been the result of evolution. I think you might be superimposing your beliefs on the Church here.
I don’t care how long it goes as long as it’s productive. I admit I was kindof glad when the other thread locked though. Certain folks seemed more interested in scoring points than honestly exchanging ideas. I was getting frustrated and felt it hurting my spirit to even continue. I’m not even sure I made a good decision coming back. It’s a safe bet no one here is completely right. But there are surely varying degrees of wrongness.
And there’s plenty of room for friendly and edifying conversation in between.It is proposed that an equation covers all the forces that could possibly interact with physical reality. Mathematics has significantly altered the world. It is not a physical force, but when we look around, especially what is right in front of us, this method of communication, we realize its impact. Clearly thought is a reality, as are feelings, perceptions and action. While a person is a physical entity, existence does not boil down to matter. These are all natural events, not covered by the equation.Aloysium:
Then you don’t understand what was written.
It is reasonable if one believes in evolution, that all this diversity, including our own existence happened by itself. It didn’t. It was designed and formed to be this way. That particles came together in just the right way is what we are told happened.
I’ve not as yet encountered a scientific explanation as to how Adam could have been the result of evolution. It is all supposition, randomness-of-the-gaps at mega-lottery odds, the psychological magically emanating from matter, the sort of ideas that any degree of skepticism scraps in a flash.
As in natural selection as a scientific explanation of speciation?… in the absence of info, we don’t claim either ‘supernatural’ or ‘natural’ origin for the things that we don’t have scientific data on.
True.
Start with an ape similar to a chimpanzee, but not actually a chimpanzee. It lived in a forest. Then around six million years ago the climate changed and the trees began to die back, leaving more savannah grasslands with isolated trees. Some of the apes remained in the forest, others moved out onto the savannah. Evolution adapted the apes who moved to better survive in the savannah, basically bipedalism. They were still good at climbing trees, but if a lion appeared they had to run to the nearest tree before they could climb it. In the jungle the nearest tree was a lot closer. The jungle apes were already adapted to the jungle environment, so did not change much.
Well, we have theories. And, as it goes, scientific theories are more or less reasonable, depending on the context. They represent the best thought of the day, and as such, are valuable. But, to look at a theory (which may be more tenuous or less tenuous, as it were) and to use it as ‘proof’ that there’s nothing supernatural going on…? Well, that smells like a ‘faith claim’ to me. It’s just a faith claim about science…
We have been told through Revelation. Science is pending. I have confidence that science will be able to soon confirm. BTW, science, empirically does not rule it out.
I’m glad that you put proof in scare quotes. And as I keep saying, constantly, there is nothing to stop anyone claiming any event as supernatural however it might conform with natural laws. Claim away as you will. But the very definition of supernatural means that it CANNOT have ocurred via natural means.o_mlly:
Well, we have theories. And, as it goes, scientific theories are more or less reasonable, depending on the context. They represent the best thought of the day, and as such, are valuable. But, to look at a theory (which may be more tenuous or less tenuous, as it were) and to use it as ‘proof’ that there’s nothing supernatural going on…? Well, that smells like a ‘faith claim’ to me. It’s just a faith claim about science…
Hmmm. - neither do Catholics.
Or else Loki/Trickster is being very sneaky and making it look like it was natural, but actually it wasn’t.
Humani Generis rules out polygenism.
Q: How do we tell the difference between natural and supernatural.Wozza:
Or else Loki/Trickster is being very sneaky and making it look like it was natural, but actually it wasn’t.
If there is no evidence then there is no science. In science, the null hypothesis is generally assumed to be true until evidence indicates otherwise.Well, we have theories . And, as it goes, scientific theories are more or less reasonable, depending on the context. They represent the best thought of the day, and as such, are valuable. But, to look at a theory (which may be more tenuous or less tenuous, as it were) and to use it as ‘proof’ that there’s nothing supernatural going on…? Well, that smells like a ‘faith claim’ to me. It’s just a faith claim about science…
Humani Generis says:
An organism can be scientifically a member of the species Homo sapiens without possessing a human soul. As Humani Generis says, science is dealing purely with the physical body. Evolution explains the origin of the physical body from “pre-existent and living matter”. That reference to “living matter” is a reference to humanity’s non-human primate ancestors. Humani Generis explicitly allows Catholics to believe that human bodies evolved.