Evolution refuting catholicism?

[vern_humphrey]

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So what do all the anti-evolutionists make of this fellow here? He can successfully breed with a mare, but the offspring will be infertile.

If that isn’t evolution in action, what is it?

 

[ISABUS]

buffalo:

The Church cannot amend Revelation. As in my previous post:

“The Church in ancient times (as well as today) never denied that natural knowledge could contribute to the understanding of this world and its origins. But in the case of conflict , the truths of Revelation could not be reinterpreted to fit the new theory. She stated that the theory has to be readjusted to fit the facts of Revelation certified by the Church.”

What you are suggesting is that the Church amend Revelation to coincide with limited (by definition) science to the exception of metaphysics and Revelation. I think not. It would require new Revelation and the Church has already pronounced Revelation ended with the Apostles.

What the Pope is suggesting here is that science has to reconcile with the truths that are under protection of the Holy Spirit not the other way around.

“We know in fact truth cannot contradict truth” - that means that science cannot contradict the Revealed truth and science must look further at the coincident points.

Another point - theologians in the Catholic Church do not have teaching authority. That rests with with the Magisterium. Issues advanced by theologians have no weight unless approved by the Church, so be careful here.

You need to reflect upon what you have written and correct the serious errors you’ve made within your statement. May I suggest you take the holiday season to earnestly seek the truth you so much need at this time about the Catholic Church.

You have a problem with pulling snippets out of text to fit your point of view as to discredit what I have previously posted. I find this approach to be extremely disrespectful. A man shouldn’t do such a thing to a woman who has earnestly tried her best to enlighten you on your path toward Christ and the truth about GOD’s Church. I suggest you pay heed to wisdom of the men in this message board. They have given their time and effort in an attempt to educate you.

Gentlemen, I wish to commend your brilliant display of strength that shines with an array of truths that preserve the infallibility of Evolution. You are the foundation which the children of the future can safely rest their minds upon. My dream would be that a team could be formed where you could educate the public. May it happen!

Have a wonderful Christmas filled with an abundance of blessings.

with Love and great admiration to All ~
Mary

 

[ISABUS]

**YES! A team preserving the infallibility of Evolution! A team that can travel across the United States and abroad educating the public and state officials about ID! Gentlemen, I have faith in YOU!!! Go for it! **

**Merry Christmas~ ~ ~ ~ :tiphat: **

 

[ISABUS]

Please consider this proposal I’ve presented. I’m a great organizer. I’d help too because I love children.

Mary ~

 

[buffalo]

ISABUS:

You need to reflect upon what you have written and correct the serious errors you’ve made within your statement. May I suggest you take the holiday season to earnestly seek the truth you so much need at this time about the Catholic Church.

You have a problem with pulling snippets out of text to fit your point of view as to discredit what I have previously posted. I find this approach to be extremely disrespectful. A man shouldn’t do such a thing to a woman who has earnestly tried her best to enlighten you on your path toward Christ and the truth about GOD’s Church. I suggest you pay heed to wisdom of the men in this message board. They have given their time and effort in an attempt to educate you.

Gentlemen, I wish to commend your brilliant display of strength that shines with an array of truths that preserve the infallibility of Evolution. You are the foundation which the children of the future can safely rest their minds upon. My dream would be that a team could be formed where you could educate the public. May it happen!

Have a wonderful Christmas filled with an abundance of blessings.

with Love and great admiration to All ~
Mary

Please enlighten us on these serious errors. To simply state there are errors as you continually do is disrespectful. I am becoming convinced you do not have backup for your generalized statements. If you have you would have answered the specific questions I have asked in this post as well as my previous posts.

I guess you believe if you keep telling me white is black enough times in capital letters I will eventually believe it.

 

[vern_humphrey]

buffalo:

Please enlighten us on these serious errors. To simply state there are errors as you continually do is disrespectful. I am becoming convinced you do not have backup for your generalized statements. If you have you would have answered the specific questions I have asked in this post as well as my previous posts.

I guess you believe if you keep telling me white is black enough times in capital letters I will eventually believe it.

Funny, I was going to say the same thing to you.

You keep saying evolution is wrong, it isn’t science, and so on – and never offer any evidence.

 

[buffalo]

vern humphrey:

Funny, I was going to say the same thing to you.

You keep saying evolution is wrong, it isn’t science, and so on – and never offer any evidence.

No! What I am saying is that science by itself is limited in its efforts to explain our origins. I am saying that we need to look deeper because the current theories have some points of contact with Catholicism and Revelation that need to be reconciled. I am saying certain truths of the Church are already protected by the Holy Spirit and those areas cannot be reversed. I have stated that evolution might be considered metaphysical because science will not be able to duplicate what happened eons ago, nor make predictions (which science does by definition). I have stated that Revelation and metaphysics do have something to say about our origins.

 

[vern_humphrey]

buffalo:

No! What I am saying is that science by itself is limited in its efforts to explain our origins. I am saying that we need to look deeper because the current theories have some points of contact with Catholicism and Revelation that need to be reconciled. I am saying certain truths of the Church are already protected by the Holy Spirit and those areas cannot be reversed…

And you keep using that same, tired old Fundamentalist playbook, touting ID – which is simply a spin-off of Creation Science.

Not all science is experimental science. And the theory of evolution DOES allow predictions – in fact, it is used in treating AIDS. Drugs and dosages are adjusted to work against HIV’s mutations, making the drugs more, instead of less effective.

buffalo:

I have stated that Revelation and metaphysics do have something to say about our origins.

But Behe and company don’t – at least not anything valid or Catholic.

 

[buffalo]

vern humphrey:

And you keep using that same, tired old Fundamentalist playbook, touting ID – which is simply a spin-off of Creation Science.

But Behe and company don’t – at least not anything valid or Catholic.

Vern, what predictions does evolution make about the human species?

 

[vern_humphrey]

buffalo:

Vern, what predictions does evolution make about the human species?

Ever hear of a guy named Shockley? He’s Politically Incorrect, but his study is solid scholarship.

Shockley analyzed various populations and statistically isolated a genetic component for economic success. His prediction was that if you subsidize unsuccessful women by paying them more to have children, you will get a larger percentage of people in the population who cannot succeed in supporting themselves.

 

[buffalo]

vern humphrey:

Ever hear of a guy named Shockley? He’s Politically Incorrect, but his study is solid scholarship.

Shockley analyzed various populations and statistically isolated a genetic component for economic success. His prediction was that if you subsidize unsuccessful women by paying them more to have children, you will get a larger percentage of people in the population who cannot succeed in supporting themselves.

And what species would they evolve into? What would they look like?

 

[vern_humphrey]

buffalo:

And what species would they evolve into? What would they look like?

Go into the poorest, most dangerous sections of any large city and see for yourself.

The idea that evolution predicts that we will become a new species is simply false – or are you jumping off the Fundamentalist ship and swimming over to the New Age cruise liner?http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

 

[buffalo]

vern humphrey:

Go into the poorest, most dangerous sections of any large city and see for yourself.

The idea that evolution predicts that we will become a new species is simply false – or are you jumping off the Fundamentalist ship and swimming over to the New Age cruise liner?http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

Then we have fully evolved? Ouch! Tell me what does evolution predicts about ourselves?

 

[wanerious]

buffalo:

Then we have fully evolved? Ouch! Tell me what does evolution predicts about ourselves?

You still fail to understand what a theory is. It does not make arbitrary predictions about future events, but might make predictions of genetic variations or of the morphology of past species. Since there is a random component to both genetic variation as well as environmental conditions, nobody knows what traits might be exhibited in the future or how the environment might select for those. The question is a straw man.

 

[vern_humphrey]

buffalo:

Then we have fully evolved? Ouch! Tell me what does evolution predicts about ourselves?

Take a deep breath before you make posts like that.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

I realize you have made a talisman of not studying or understanding evolution – and it would be pointless to try to teach you.

But at least you understand that evolution does not occur within a single individual – you don’t get born as a human and die as another species!

Now, about us as a species, the Theory of Evolution predicts that IF we are under severe environmental pressure, evolution MAY occur, or we may become extinct.

 

[buffalo]

vern humphrey:

Take a deep breath before you make posts like that.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

I realize you have made a talisman of not studying or understanding evolution – and it would be pointless to try to teach you.

But at least you understand that evolution does not occur within a single individual – you don’t get born as a human and die as another species!

Now, about us as a species, the Theory of Evolution predicts that IF we are under severe environmental pressure, evolution MAY occur, or we may become extinct.

Now Vern - didn’t you post before that evolution is a fact? Now it’s a theory? That has been my position all along. If your argument is that evolution = change, that is obvious and I am in agreement. Is that the same as macroevolution?

 

[SocaliCatholic]

wanerious:

SocaliCatholic:

Lets make it a step easier. Do you believe that you can have science without observation?

Nope. But I’ve got a sneaking suspicion that you’re about to say something I’m not going to agree with. IT SMELLS LIKE A TRAP!!!

Yes you are right, it is a trap.

Facts from observation are the key to science, becuause it does not build its equations around things taken on faith, superstitions ect.

Therefore it is in the same respect that science does not, or cannot make equations proving God; it cannot make equations proving MacroEvolution - neither can be observed.

Before you jump to say we have genetics, fossil record ect, again I am talking about the never observed “Big Picture” - monkeys changing into men.

 

[vern_humphrey]

buffalo:

Now Vern - didn’t you post before that evolution is a fact? Now it’s a theory? That has been my position all along. If your argument is that evolution = change, that is obvious and I am in agreement. Is that the same as macroevolution?

Don’t play the fool.

Evolution is a fact.

The Theory of Evolution is the explanation of how and why it occurs.

Intelligent Design is a Fundamentalist approach to getting around the collapse of “Creation Science.”

 

[vern_humphrey]

buffalo:

Now Vern - didn’t you post before that evolution is a fact? Now it’s a theory? That has been my position all along. If your argument is that evolution = change, that is obvious and I am in agreement. Is that the same as macroevolution?

 

[dcdurel]

vern humphrey:

Evolution is a fact.

The Theory of Evolution is the explanation of how and why it occurs.

Intelligent Design is a Fundamentalist approach to getting around the collapse of “Creation Science.”

Since you seem to have faith in Darwinian evolution, by blindly calling it “a fact” please explain how sexual reproduction came about, using the basic theory of Darwinian evolution.

I want a good explanation. Please do not evade the issue by calling me a Fundamentalist or other ad hominem attacks. Please do not evade the issue by saying “it a fact” thus it must have happened.
Please don’t evade the issue by saying, “all scientists believe it” ( which is false, because 40% of scientists believe in a God directed evolution)

If Darwinian evolution explains how and why it occurs., then it must have a good explanation of how sexual reproduction came about.

Try, try, try not to evade the problem. I want a good explanation, not evasion.