Evolution refuting catholicism?

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Based on the recommendations here, I’m reading “Information as a Measure of Variation” by Dembski, and I have a question about the paper. Is there a website or message board where the technical aspects of ID are discussed?

Specifically, I’m wondering if the generalization of the definition of conditional information from sets A and B to measures mu_1 and mu_2 (pages 7 and 8) is standard information theory or is a contribution by Demski himself. I couldn’t figure this out from the text.
 
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Catholic2003:
Based on the recommendations here, I’m reading “Information as a Measure of Variation” by Dembski, and I have a question about the paper. Is there a website or message board where the technical aspects of ID are discussed?

Specifically, I’m wondering if the generalization of the definition of conditional information from sets A and B to measures mu_1 and mu_2 (pages 7 and 8) is standard information theory or is a contribution by Demski himself. I couldn’t figure this out from the text.
You can go to the Access Research Network Design Forum found here:

arn.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php

Very intelligent group of individuals discussing ID and other stuff. I think you will enjoy reading the postings. They might be able to help you. 🙂

Mary ~
 
DENVER POST
JANUARY 2, 2005
New year, new level of tolerance, perhaps?http://www.denverpost.com/cda/images/article/spacer.gif

By Barrie Hartman

Here in Boulder land, where the left is always right and the right is always wrong, a debate is raging over whether a public school is really a religious school.
Peak to Peak charter school in Lafayette is just a stone’s throw from the liberal city of Boulder. Some parents are accusing Peak to Peak of turning into a Christian academy funded by tax dollars. The tension, they say, has caused a few teachers to quit and some parents to pull out their kids.

**Even worse, a girl attempted suicide last month after complaining she was bullied by students for believing in evolution, not creationism.😦 **

Peak to Peak and district officials staunchly defend the K-12 school, saying that it is neither plagued by “fundies” (fundamental Christian bullies) nor subservient to an evangelical agenda.

Because I know parents who founded Peak to Peak, I’m skeptical about the validity of the accusations. However, if religious education is actually making inroads into the liberal heartland of the state, what, for goodness sakes, is happening elsewhere?

It’s a serious matter that needs to be watched. Yet, I worry about the growing tendency to shoot first and ask questions later, a category into which the Lafayette situation may well fall. In any case, religious tolerance is being tested like never before, and we liberals can be just as guilty of seeing a conspiracy at the drop of a Bible as the right can be in seeing hatred for Jesus in every religious challenge.

Granted, there’s good reason for liberals to be wary. The born-agains, with their newfound power, are letting their true feelings hang out, such as judging homosexuality as sinful rather than as a biological roll of the dice.

Or teaching children that the Earth is 6,000 years old, as the Bible says, not 4.5 billion-plus, as scientific evidence makes clear.

Or not just opposing abortion, but admitting that the ultimate target is contraception.

Or condemning stem-cell research, even though exploration could lead to improving lives for victims of savage diseases like multiple sclerosis and Alzheimer’s in decades to come.

And then there’s the Iraq war, which many evangelicals defend as a crusade for Christ.

As wrong as I feel Christian rightists are on these issues, there are others that we liberals shouldn’t be so reticent about supporting - such as resisting gay marriage. It’s clear that the nation isn’t ready for that yet. But - hooray! - the right may be willing to accept civil unions as a compromise. Let’s go for it. Also, how many of us Christian libs were just as bothered as the right - but said nothing - when the Downtown Denver Partnership barred floats with religious themes from the holiday parade?

Or how many of us stood with the right in expressing displeasure as schools and cities went overboard making certain no one was offended by saying “Merry Christmas” or by singing a Christmas song?

My grandson, a fourth-grader, sang in the “winter program” at his school in Thornton. I didn’t recognize a single song. Apparently, neither did anyone else. “Good grief,” grumped a mom. “Couldn’t they at least have sung 'Frosty the Snowman?”’

We liberal Christians must be careful not to judge conservatives as being of one mind on everything. We’re certainly not.

My mail, phone calls and friendships show as many differences among Christian rightists as among any grouping of adults. To place them solidly in the mindset of the Jerry Falwells and James Dobsons is as wrong as labeling liberals as anti-American and morally vapid.

Jim Vandel of Cheyenne illustrates the dilemma so many of us experience.

“As a conservative, I want to have a balanced budget and a strong national defense,” he writes. "As a Methodist, I want to be able to tolerate others’ beliefs while they tolerate mine. I want to support the Constitution but don’t want it changed in order to protect the flag or deny rights to gays or anybody else not exactly like me.

"What I don’t understand is why others call themselves conservative and yet support politicians wanting to spend us into bankruptcy, conduct a totally unnecessary and probably counterproductive war and support actions that would stifle freedom in this country.

“Bottom line, I have become confused about liberal/conservative.” Vandel then goes on to suggest that many of us on the left and right actually belong in “the radical center.”

The point is most of us are not purely one way or the other. And that means there ought to be ways to break down the walls of arrogant resistance between us.

Nothing like a brand new year to get the ball rolling.

denverpost.com/Stories/0…2626927,00.html
 
vern humphrey:
Perhaps the Holy Spirit, just this once, inspired you to tell the truth, as a gentle reminder to stick with Catholic doctrine, and stop trying to sell Fundamentalism.
As you well know, I tell the truth quite frequently on these forums but I know it gets modern science and sympathesizer all riled when I take on the “philosophy” of evolution, which stems from a materialistic naturalism (that is not acceptable according to the Chruch)

Catholic doctrine nor modern day science requires me to believe that human beings descended from a common ancestor of apes or that the earth is billions of years old. You can call this truth. I say it has not been proven. The Church says you are not in sin to say this is truth but I would say Her actual position is closer to mine - we have no proof of the common ancestor or the super old earth. Further, the Church says that human beings (and no other living things) were made in the image and likeness of God when they were created. Based on the common ancestor theory, at what point was the male/female combination “human” enough to create a baby human that God said - “time to insert by image and likeness”?
vern humphrey:
As a matter of fact, it does. DNA analysis is used in paternity cases – it can tell if a child was or not fathered by a given man. And it can tell if two species are related, and how closely.
So DNA can tell if a child was fathered by a given man and it can tell how closely human DNA (as defined by current scientific methods) matches apes DNA. How does this translate to we desceneded from a common ancestor. Could God not have made the DNA similar? Could it be that we are just beginning to understand DNA and that we are dealing with a higher, much less detailed level of it than we will get to later?
 
vern humphrey:
Perhaps the Holy Spirit, just this once, inspired you to tell the truth, as a gentle reminder to stick with Catholic doctrine, and stop trying to sell Fundamentalism.

.
This is Catholic Doctrine
  1. the creation of the entire universe in the beginning of time by God
  2. the special creation of the fiirst man
  3. the formation of the first woman from the first man by God
  4. the unity of the human race
  5. the initial happiness of our first parents in the state of original justice.
At least Philvaz is trying to reconcile it not just ignore it like some others.
 
**DENVER POST
JANUARY 2, 2005
**New year, new level of tolerance, perhaps?http://www.denverpost.com/cda/images/article/spacer.gif
By Barrie Hartman

Here in Boulder land, where the left is always right and the right is always wrong, a debate is raging over whether a public school is really a religious school.
Peak to Peak charter school in Lafayette is just a stone’s throw from the liberal city of Boulder. Some parents are accusing Peak to Peak of turning into a Christian academy funded by tax dollars. The tension, they say, has caused a few teachers to quit and some parents to pull out their kids.

**Even worse, a girl attempted suicide last month after complaining she was bullied by students for believing in evolution, not creationism.😦 **

Peak to Peak and district officials staunchly defend the K-12 school, saying that it is neither plagued by “fundies” (fundamental Christian bullies) nor subservient to an evangelical agenda.

Because I know parents who founded Peak to Peak, I’m skeptical about the validity of the accusations. However, if religious education is actually making inroads into the liberal heartland of the state, what, for goodness sakes, is happening elsewhere?

It’s a serious matter that needs to be watched. Yet, I worry about the growing tendency to shoot first and ask questions later, a category into which the Lafayette situation may well fall. In any case, religious tolerance is being tested like never before, and we liberals can be just as guilty of seeing a conspiracy at the drop of a Bible as the right can be in seeing hatred for Jesus in every religious challenge.

Granted, there’s good reason for liberals to be wary. The born-agains, with their newfound power, are letting their true feelings hang out, such as judging homosexuality as sinful rather than as a biological roll of the dice.

Or teaching children that the Earth is 6,000 years old, as the Bible says, not 4.5 billion-plus, as scientific evidence makes clear.

Or not just opposing abortion, but admitting that the ultimate target is contraception.

Or condemning stem-cell research, even though exploration could lead to improving lives for victims of savage diseases like multiple sclerosis and Alzheimer’s in decades to come.

And then there’s the Iraq war, which many evangelicals defend as a crusade for Christ.

As wrong as I feel Christian rightists are on these issues, there are others that we liberals shouldn’t be so reticent about supporting - such as resisting gay marriage. It’s clear that the nation isn’t ready for that yet. But - hooray! - the right may be willing to accept civil unions as a compromise. Let’s go for it. Also, how many of us Christian libs were just as bothered as the right - but said nothing - when the Downtown Denver Partnership barred floats with religious themes from the holiday parade?

Or how many of us stood with the right in expressing displeasure as schools and cities went overboard making certain no one was offended by saying “Merry Christmas” or by singing a Christmas song?

My grandson, a fourth-grader, sang in the “winter program” at his school in Thornton. I didn’t recognize a single song. Apparently, neither did anyone else. “Good grief,” grumped a mom. “Couldn’t they at least have sung 'Frosty the Snowman?”’

We liberal Christians must be careful not to judge conservatives as being of one mind on everything. We’re certainly not.

My mail, phone calls and friendships show as many differences among Christian rightists as among any grouping of adults. To place them solidly in the mindset of the Jerry Falwells and James Dobsons is as wrong as labeling liberals as anti-American and morally vapid.

Jim Vandel of Cheyenne illustrates the dilemma so many of us experience.

“As a conservative, I want to have a balanced budget and a strong national defense,” he writes. "As a Methodist, I want to be able to tolerate others’ beliefs while they tolerate mine. I want to support the Constitution but don’t want it changed in order to protect the flag or deny rights to gays or anybody else not exactly like me.

"What I don’t understand is why others call themselves conservative and yet support politicians wanting to spend us into bankruptcy, conduct a totally unnecessary and probably counterproductive war and support actions that would stifle freedom in this country.

“Bottom line, I have become confused about liberal/conservative.” Vandel then goes on to suggest that many of us on the left and right actually belong in “the radical center.”

The point is most of us are not purely one way or the other. And that means there ought to be ways to break down the walls of arrogant resistance between us.

Nothing like a brand new year to get the ball rolling.

denverpost.com/Stories/0…2626927,00.html
 
such as judging homosexuality as sinful rather than as a biological roll of the dice.
That certainly mischaracterizes Catholic teaching as well as I am geussing most Christian teaching. 😦 Why must the media stereotype? rather than simply print the truth?
 
I am asking a big favor of anyone who wishes to post after my post. Would you be so kind as to leave this post up for an entire day so the young people in this Catholic forum may have a chance to read this message first? Please. It may make all the the difference in saving a young person’s life or destroying their spirit. I honestly don’t think God would mind. This is very serious when …

"Even worse, a girl attempted suicide last month after complaining she was bullied by students for believing in evolution, not **
creationism."
******

denverpost.com/Stories/0…2626927,00.html

A “thank you” from God, who loves all his children!

Mary ~
 
40.png
ISABUS:
I am asking a big favor of anyone who wishes to post after my post. Would you be so kind as to leave this post up for an entire day so the young people in this Catholic forum may have a chance to read this message first? Please. It may make all the the difference in saving a young person’s life or destroying their spirit. I honestly don’t think God would mind. This is very serious when …

"Even worse, a girl attempted suicide last month after complaining she was bullied by students for believing in evolution, not **
creationism."
******

denverpost.com/Stories/0…2626927,00.html

A “thank you” from God, who loves all his children!

Mary ~
What point are you trying to make here? I’m missing it.
 
40.png
Brown10985:
None of the evidence points to monogenism.
Though I honestly don’t know enough on the matter, I’ve been told that Mitochondrial Eve points to monogenism.

As for evidence, what about faith?

Hbr 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, **the evidence of things not seen. **
Hbr 11:2
For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Hbr 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
 
<< Though I honestly don’t know enough on the matter, I’ve been told that Mitochondrial Eve points to monogenism. As for evidence, what about faith? >>

What are you doing??? Resurrecting 8 page threads??? 😃

I’m sure you read through all 8 pages of this thread BEFORE posting right???

“No…more…evolution…threads”
“No…more…evolution…threads”
“No…more…evolution…threads”

People chant with me…

“No…more…evolution…threads”
“No…more…evolution…threads”

“Less filling!”
“Tastes great!”
“Less filling!”
“Tastes great!”

Phil P
 
It’s a very interesting topic of discussion. In order to understand who we are and where we are going, perhaps we must first realize where we came from. I only wish that creationists could explain endogenous retroviral insertions.

Peace.
 
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