Evolution

[CHRISTINE77]

Ed, if you don’t mind my saying so this sounds a little hysterical.

Every President we’ve had in the last twenty years have worn their Christian religion on their sleeve. Something like 80% of the U.S. population is Christian, among which a large portion are fundamentalist Christians.

And you’re talking about the atheists taking over? Come on, man. That does not stick. I think it makes more sense to surmise that atheists have become more active in the last few years to counteract what they see as an intermingling of secular (state) and religious affairs. That is something we should all fear.

Technocracy? I don’t think so. You can relax.

Best,

Tor

coming from an atheist, that is really reassuring!

 

[Namesake]

“not pushed” You’re joking, right? Have you counted the number of threads here? “mountains of evidence”? I usually see this on atheist and agnostic sites.

Not pushed at all. It’s important to defend science against irrational attacks. Evolution is as near an absolute fact as water being two atoms of hydrogen and one atom of oxygen. If you attack that idea someone who knows more should defend the science. That’s really all that is going on here.

You understand that according to Pope Benedict, we (human beings) are not haphazard mistakes?

No one suggests that humans are haphazard mistakes. You should get rid of that ridiculous claim because it isn’t in the least true and it makes you look silly.

You add to the growing list of those who have come here to promote evolution. Why? With mountains of evidence, I think people have more than enough information to judge for themselves.

Most people don’t understand the evidence. Evolution theory is incredibly complex and anyone who claims to understand it all is deluded. The average person without advanced education would have great difficulty understanding even a tiny part of evolution theory. When I taught evolution theory at a university the students were mostly pre-med or were going on into grad school in life sciences. Only a very elite group of people really understand much about evolution theory because it is so very complex. I try to help people understand some of the fundamentals and debunk the ridiculous attacks made by people who don’t understand at all.

 

[SFTor]

“probability”? Have you seen the other evolution threads here? A common statement is “evolution is a fact.” Sometimes with, “get over it” tacked on.

According to Pope Benedict, human beings are not haphazard mistakes. I won’t just say yes to evolution.

God bless,
Ed

Well, evolution is not a fact. It is a theory. But in saying that we need to make sure we understand the meaning of the word “theory” in science. In short we can say that a theory is a hypothesis that is supported by data. As far as evolution is concerned, the theory is well supported by data.

Best,

Tor

 

[SFTor]

coming from an atheist, that is really reassuring!

Christine, I would urge you to learn to attack the argument and not the person making it.

It is rude and destructive to cheapen other people’s sincerity and integrity. It will also prevent you from learning from others.

Best,

Tor

 

[Namesake]

“probability”? Have you seen the other evolution threads here? A common statement is “evolution is a fact.” Sometimes with, “get over it” tacked on.

According to Pope Benedict, human beings are not haphazard mistakes. I won’t just say yes to evolution.

Evolution theory doesn’t suggest that humans are haphazard mistakes and you repeating that lie doesn’t make it believable. Evolution theory is about as close to an absolute fact as science can get.

 

[SFTor]

Ed,

there is one thing I don’t understand: why do you object to people demonstrating outside the Creationist Museum?

Are they not entitled to express their opinion?

Best,

Tor

 

[theistgal]

well, you were a minute ago, before you changed it.

Yes, and I have to humbly thank you for reminding me to update my profile once in a while!

See, I was an atheist for quite a while, before returning to the Faith. When I first registered here, I wasn’t 100% sure I was really “back home”. But now I am - however, I never did get around to updating my profile. Silly me!

So again, thanks for the reminder!

(However, IMHO, a good Catholic should always maintain a certain level of healthy skepticism. )

 

[Bendo]

Hi all,

A free downloadable CD on Evolution that is free to copy and distribute, if kept intact, is available at…

isidore.org.au/

(go into the pub folder and click save as.)

The CD is an ISO file that you burn to a CD. It plays a show for you on your PC or Mac.

It covers many questions on Evolution and why it is an attack on the Catholic faith.

 

[theistgal]

It covers many questions on Evolution and why it is an attack on the Catholic faith.

Does it explain why it doesn’t matter that Pope John Paul II had no problem with it?

Oh right - he didn’t believe in God. Silly me.

 

[Namesake]

Hi all,

A free downloadable CD on Evolution that is free to copy and distribute, if kept intact, is available at…

isidore.org.au/

(go into the pub folder and click save as.)

The CD is an ISO file that you burn to a CD. It plays a show for you on your PC or Mac.

It covers many questions on Evolution and why it is an attack on the Catholic faith.

Evolution is not an attack on the Catholic faith in any way, shape, or form and you cannot support such a ridiculous claim.

 

[SFTor]

Hi all,

A free downloadable CD on Evolution that is free to copy and distribute, if kept intact, is available at…

isidore.org.au/

(go into the pub folder and click save as.)

The CD is an ISO file that you burn to a CD. It plays a show for you on your PC or Mac.

It covers many questions on Evolution and why it is an attack on the Catholic faith.

Is it an attack on the Catholic faith, or on every faith? Do you think it is intended as an attack on your faith?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

With 4.5 billion creation-evolution threads, you just had to start another one…

I agree with the Pope, he is definitely “theistic evolution” of some sort. That quote from Wikipedia is there because I put it there. But I guess they want a specific page number. I’ll have to provide that too.

To be fair, the Pope had questions about evolutionary science in the past, and has some “intelligent design” ideas (see especially same book, near the end). For his (and the Church’s) latest views see the 2008 book Creation and Evolution based on his 2006 “student circle” meetings on the topic.

Phil P

Just be grateful it’s not 13.7 thousand million (yet) ​

 

[theistgal]

Just be grateful it’s not 13.7 thousand million (yet) ​

Wait till Monday.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Amen to that. It’s like we have to accept evolution - hook, line and sinker without questioning it at all. It’s just a theory! I don’t know the history of when it became mandatory to be taught in public schools; it should be taught as a theory, not the absolute truth.

And you are right, atheists are the ones who really push evolution, (along with a lot of evil agenda). They really don’t want people to believe in God at all.

Faith in God is not based on God’s creation - so to think that it can be destroyed by accepting the factual status of evolution is to be guilty of sloppy thinking. Which is sad, but unsurprising.​

BTW, who has an idea is irrelevant - what matters is the idea itself, not who has it. So it would not matter if only adorers of Lucifer Prince of Darkness were the only proponents of evolution; it can stand on its own perfectly well regardless of the moral or spiritual chacter of its proponents: as is shown by the fact that it is shared by scientists of very varied beliefs. If only agnostics/atheists/materialists held it, that would suggest that only they could hold it - but they are far from being ithe only people to hold it. Unless one is to re-define Christians who hold as agnostics, etc. - which is dishonest.

 

[edwest2]

Not pushed at all. It’s important to defend science against irrational attacks. Evolution is as near an absolute fact as water being two atoms of hydrogen and one atom of oxygen. If you attack that idea someone who knows more should defend the science. That’s really all that is going on here.

No one suggests that humans are haphazard mistakes. You should get rid of that ridiculous claim because it isn’t in the least true and it makes you look silly.

Most people don’t understand the evidence. Evolution theory is incredibly complex and anyone who claims to understand it all is deluded. The average person without advanced education would have great difficulty understanding even a tiny part of evolution theory. When I taught evolution theory at a university the students were mostly pre-med or were going on into grad school in life sciences. Only a very elite group of people really understand much about evolution theory because it is so very complex. I try to help people understand some of the fundamentals and debunk the ridiculous attacks made by people who don’t understand at all.

Random mutation is just that:

That’s a strange thing to say.

I notice Kenneth Miller’s textbook says:

Additionally, a recent textbook (Evolution, Nicholas Barton et al., 2007) says that there is “extreme randomness [in] the evolutionary process” (p. 435).
And
“Seen in detail, however, the evolutionary process is fundamentally random.” (p. 413)
" . . we begin our consideration of the processes responsible for evolution by emphasizing the randomness of evolution. (p. 413)"

Robert Ornstein’s Prentice Hall text The Evolution of Consciousness explains that mutations “are accidents” and “happen by random generation.” Ornstein concludes that we are the result of “countless historical accidents”

Robert Ornstein, The Evolution of Consciousness: Of Darwin, Freud, and Cranial Fire-The Origins of the Way We Think, pg. 267(Prentice Hall, 1990)

1995 Prentice Hall textbook, Exploring Life Science
explains that **“one of the driving forces behind evolution is mutations” which are “chance events.”

This was the answer I received from a scientist on another forum: “A teenager on crack gets evolution and you don’t?” I hope you can understand why I do not buy the story that most are here to teach or correct - just on an evangelical mission to get everyone to accept. Which, every time it happens, just confirms this.

 

[reggieM]

However, as GK Chesterton said, “It is absurd for the Evolutionist to complain that it is unthinkable for an admittedly unthinkable God to make everything out of nothing, and then pretend that it is more thinkable that nothing should turn itself into everything.”

That’s a great quote by Chesterton.

 

[edwest2]

Evolution is not an attack on the Catholic faith in any way, shape, or form and you cannot support such a ridiculous claim.

No? Just listen to 60 seconds of this interview with PZ Myers:

youtube.com/watch?v=EczOQ1mV5aU

God bless,
Ed

 

[PraRFLEsEkHm]

Hi John:

If Genesis is not a scientific treatise on the formation of the world, why are some people trying to shoehorn it into that role?

Best,

Tor

Hi

Well, I really couldn’t give a definitive answer to that, it seems (my own take on it) like fundamental creationists, such as those I was talking about, are afraid of the answers science gives. Most of these people have a literal view of the Scriptures only. Rather than a composite such as is the Catholic view.

Any scientific claims to the contrary threatens their faith - because their entire Faith is resting on Scripture as a literal document only, with no other possible answer other than what is contained in Scripture.

You see it all over these forums - especially pertaining to the Eucharist, and Confession, among others.

Peace

John

 

[PraRFLEsEkHm]

People who defend evolution. People who know how evolution is supposed to work.

I’ve noticed that people on this post who strongly believe in evolution, do not believe in God.

That would NOT include me - just so you know.

 

[PraRFLEsEkHm]

It’s a Catholic who doesn’t automatically believe everything other Catholics say unless it’s backed up by authoritative documents provided by the Magisterium.

:clapping:

Peace

John