Evolution

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But the Card goes seriously astray by asserting that science claims (falsely) to have the entire answer to life’s purpose; on the contrary, science does not address that at all.
Cardinal Schonborn never said that and that means you lack the patience to listen carefully. He said that when science claims to have the answer to life’s purpose, (and despite your denial, there are those who make it at least appear so) then they err.

His point…(had you listened more carefully) and I worked top bring this out in my questions to him, was that science does just fine when it speaks within the field of science, just as the church does in the field of religion, but that when either one tries to speak into the other’s field they often err and therefore should not do so.
 
Does anyone know, if we did evolve from an ape like creature, then why do we now where clothes? Humans are the only species on earth to wear clothes. If we did originally wear nothing and resembled other ape-like creatures then started wearing something, then this isn’t evolution but regression, isn’t it? No other creature similar to man wear’s clothes.
Yes, and here’s another thing that puzzles me. Today, there exist on earth BOTH men and apes. But if men evolved from apes, why do apes still exist? Also why aren’t their any ape-like men on earth today?
 
Yes, and here’s another thing that puzzles me. Today, there exist on earth BOTH men and apes. But if men evolved from apes, why do apes still exist? Also why aren’t their any ape-like men on earth today?
Because men didn’t evolve from apes. Both men and apes descended from an earlier and now extinct species.

(But of course, you already knew this, since you’ve read all the available scientific material - right? 😉 )

Now here’s a question for you:

If God made man from dust, why is there still dust? :rolleyes:
 
Yes, and here’s another thing that puzzles me. Today, there exist on earth BOTH men and apes. But if men evolved from apes, why do apes still exist? Also why aren’t their any ape-like men on earth today?
Additionally, apes are not any more intelligent now then they were from the beginning of recorded history. Apparently, the “positive mutations” that caused them to evolve in the first place just stopped occurring.
 
Because men didn’t evolve from apes. Both men and apes descended from an earlier and now extinct species.

(But of course, you already knew this, since you’ve read all the available scientific material - right? 😉 )

Now here’s a question for you:

If God made man from dust, why is there still dust? :rolleyes:
But that’s just it. I don’t believe in evolution, so why would I wonder why there was still dust? I don’t think the world evolved.

But why is there anything except Man according to the theory of evolution? Why isn’t everything extinct, except the top layer? Why are there still fish, and amphibians? Or is everything just in the state of becoming something else?

No I haven’t read all the scientific material.
 
Cardinal Schonborn never said that and that means you lack the patience to listen carefully. He said that when science claims to have the answer to life’s purpose, (and despite your denial, there are those who make it at least appear so) then they err.

His point…(had you listened more carefully) and I worked top bring this out in my questions to him, was that science does just fine when it speaks within the field of science, just as the church does in the field of religion, but that when either one tries to speak into the other’s field they often err and therefore should not do so.
“often err”? That is simply not true. And they should do so. Pope John Paul II defined the correct relationship between science and religion.

“Science can purify religion from error and superstition. Religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes.”

If truth cannot contradict truth it must flow in both directions. Men of science need to be at least cognizant of other areas of reason that we human beings still need.

God bless,
Ed
 
Will humans eventually evolve into something non-human?

If species cannot mate with different species, how can evolution be possible?
 
But that’s just it. I don’t believe in evolution, so why would I wonder why there was still dust? I don’t think the world evolved.
Fortunately for you, God hasn’t made that a requirement. If you don’t approve of the way He did it, you can still be saved.
But why is there anything except Man according to the theory of evolution?
Because there are many, many niches open to organisms in the world. Man fills just one of them. If it wasn’t for other organisms, there wouldn’t be man (man is an obligate heterotroph, and cannot make his own food)
Why isn’t everything extinct, except the top layer?
There is no “top” in biology. Just organisms that have managed to survive to the present day.
Why are there still fish, and amphibians?
Because there are still opportunities for fish and amphibians.
Or is everything just in the state of becoming something else?
Pretty much so. But it’s not a ladder with man on top. Every living being alive now, is at the top of the tree.
I haven’t read all the scientific material.
Might be a good idea to read some of it.
 
Will humans eventually evolve into something non-human?

If species cannot mate with different species, how can evolution be possible?
Exactly - please predict what we humans will evolve into. This challenge will be unanswered.
 
To The Barbarian -

I would just like to point out that God has intervened in His creation in ways science cannot explain.

An example: Bees. How can they recognize a flower? How do they know how to interact with it? And the flower. How is it that it contains material useful to insects like bees?

Peace,
Ed
 
🤷
Because there are many, many niches open to organisms in the world. Man fills just one of them. If it wasn’t for other organisms, there wouldn’t be man (man is an obligate heterotroph, and cannot make his own food)

There is no “top” in biology. Just organisms that have managed to survive to the present day.
So don’t believe that Man is created in God’s image, that he is God’s crowning creation? That God gave men dominion over all living things?
 
PASCENDI DOMINICI GREGIS
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS X
ON THE DOCTRINES
OF THE MODERNISTS

*** Faith Subject to Science
*** 17. Yet, it would be a great mistake to suppose that, given these theories, one is authorised to believe that faith and science are independent of one another. On the side of science the independence is indeed complete, but it is quite different with regard to faith, which is subject to science not on one but on three grounds. For in the first place it must be observed that in every religious fact, when you take away the *divine reality *and the experience of it which the believer possesses, everything else, and especially the *religious formulas *of it, belongs to the sphere of phenomena and therefore falls under the control of science. Let the believer leave the world if he will, but so long as he remains in it he must continue, whether he like it or not, to be subject to the laws, the observation, the judgments of science and of history. Further, when it is said that God is the object of faith alone, the statement refers only to the divine reality not to the idea of God. The latter also is subject to science which while it philosophises in what is called the logical order soars also to the absolute and the ideal. It is therefore the right of philosophy and of science to form conclusions concerning the idea of God, to direct it in its evolution and to purify it of any extraneous elements which may become confused with it. Finally, man does not suffer a dualism to exist in him, and the believer therefore feels within him an impelling need so to harmonise faith with science, that it may never oppose the general conception which science sets forth concerning the universe.
Thus it is evident that science is to be entirely independent of faith, while on the other hand, and notwithstanding that they are supposed to be strangers to each other, faith is made subject to science. All this, Venerable Brothers, is in formal opposition with the teachings of Our Predecessor, Pius IX, where he lays it down that: In matters of religion it is the duty of philosophy not to command but to serve, but not to prescribe what is to be believed but to embrace what is to be believed with reasonable obedience, not to scrutinise the depths of the mysteries of God but to venerate them devoutly and humbly.
The Modernists completely invert the parts, and to them may be applied the words of another Predecessor of Ours, Gregory IX., addressed to some theologians of his time: Some among you, inflated like bladders with the spirit of vanity strive by profane novelties to cross the boundaries fixed by the Fathers, twisting the sense of the heavenly pages . . .to the philosophical teaching of the rationals, not for the profit of their hearer but to make a show of science . . . these, seduced by strange and eccentric doctrines, make the head of the tail and force the queen to serve the servant.
 
An example: Bees. How can they recognize a flower? How do they know how to interact with it? And the flower. How is it that it contains material useful to insects like bees?
“Explanations” for the supposed evolution of flowers are among the more humorous Darwinian just-so stories I’ve seen.

Supposedly, flowers evolved their incredible beauty and diversity in order to attract more bees, birds and bats. Then the flowers decided to change their shape in order to fit the snouts of birds (they didn’t have to worry about bees because they’re small enough).

Bees just happened to want to get pollen in order to make honey and wax for some reason not connected to survival of the fittest at all. But it also just happened that honey and wax are wonderful gifts to humanity that bees create (through evolutionary accidents these things “appeared”, so it is said).

The complex symmetry, pattern and organized society of bees is also a product of random mutations – as the Darwinists declare.

Bees have been doing the same thing at least for the past 6,000 years. The only evolution we may see with these magnificient creatures is if environmental changes cause them to die off. Suddenly, there are no “positive mutations” to allow them to survive. They just disappear.
 
Thus it is evident that science is to be entirely independent of faith, while on the other hand, and notwithstanding that they are supposed to be strangers to each other, faith is made subject to science. All this, Venerable Brothers, is in formal opposition with the teachings of Our Predecessor, Pius IX, where he lays it down that: In matters of religion it is the duty of philosophy not to command but to serve, but not to prescribe what is to be believed but to embrace what is to be believed with reasonable obedience, not to scrutinise the depths of the mysteries of God but to venerate them devoutly and humbly.
The Modernists completely invert the parts, and to them may be applied the words of another Predecessor of Ours, Gregory IX., addressed to some theologians of his time: Some among you, inflated like bladders with the spirit of vanity strive by profane novelties to cross the boundaries fixed by the Fathers, twisting the sense of the heavenly pages . . .to the philosophical teaching of the rationals, not for the profit of their hearer but to make a show of science . . . these, seduced by strange and eccentric doctrines, make the head of the tail and force the queen to serve the servant.

Nice quote. Also, people who are so sure of evolution seem to presume that they know just how this world was created. No man can presume that he knows the workings and ways of God.

From Job, Chapter 38

1: Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2: Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3: Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4: Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5: Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6: Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
 
Of course, all this discussion is fruitless because:
  1. if evolution is true, it doesn’t matter whether you “believe” in it or not, and
  2. if evolution is not true, that still doesn’t prove that your alternative theory is correct.
Pointless. I’m going out for popcorn now. :rolleyes:
 
Nice quote. Also, people who are so sure of evolution seem to presume that they know just how this world was created. No man can presume that he knows the workings and ways of God.

From Job, Chapter 38

1: Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2: Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3: Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4: Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5: Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6: Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
The more people use human-sciences alone to try to understand the mysteries of God – the less will they actually know and the more ridiculous they will become.

“And I understood that man can find no reason of all those works of God that are done under the sun: and the more he shall labor to seek, so much the less shall he find: yea, though the wise man shall say, that he knoweth it, he shall not be able to find it.” (Eccl 8:17).
 
Today, there exist on earth BOTH men and apes. But if men evolved from apes, why do apes still exist?
Have another look at that:Today, there exist on earth BOTH Americans and Europeans. But if some Americans descended from Europeans, why do Europeans still exist?
The answer of course is that some Europeans moved ot America and their descendants are now Americans, other Europeans stayed in Europe and their descendants are still Europeans.

In the case of humans, some ancient apes evolved into chimps, gorillas etc. while other ancient apes evolved into humans.
Also why aren’t their any ape-like men on earth today?
In scientific terms all humans are apes (Hominidae). We are a large brained primate with no tail and a certain conformation of our teeth and shoulder joints. We meet the definition.

rossum
 
But that’s just it. I don’t believe in evolution, so why would I wonder why there was still dust?
Read Genesis 2:7.
I don’t think the world evolved.
Neither do biologists. For the origin of planet earth ask an astronomer. Darwin called his book “On the Origin of Species”; evolution deals with the origin of species not of the earth.
But why is there anything except Man according to the theory of evolution? Why isn’t everything extinct, except the top layer?
All currently living organisms are the “top layer”. Each current organism has more than three billion years of evolution behind it.
Why are there still fish,
Because there are plenty of available ecological niches underwater for fish to live in. Evolution is not a linear process, it is a branching bush which tries to send its branches into all possible ecological niches. There are bacteria which have recently evolved to eat the residue from the manufacture of nylon, see nylon eating bacteria.
Or is everything just in the state of becoming something else?
All species are evolving, though different sspecies will evolve at different rates. Some evolve slowly while others evolve more quickly depending on things like generation time and the rate of change of their environment.
No I haven’t read all the scientific material.
Then you would do well to read more. I suggest that you start with Understanding Evolution.

rossum
 
There are clearly variations among humans. Look at the variation in cranial shapes between Caucasion, Negroid and Oriental.

The vast majority of Americans are of European stock. It’s another thing alogether to suggest man and ape diverged sometime in the distant past.

Peace,
Ed
 
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