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netmilsmom
Guest
Baby steps are better than no steps.
I have to say, the Latin and Greek are bigger than baby!
Perhaps if we keep praying and put trust in B16, we will all have an EWTN Holy Mass one day.
- Status
Baby steps are better than no steps.
I have to say, the Latin and Greek are bigger than baby!
Perhaps if we keep praying and put trust in B16, we will all have an EWTN Holy Mass one day.
D
Dr.Bombay
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
It has to start with a change of heart, locally. I wonder how many priests, if they were approached humbly and in charity, might consider offering a Latin Mass once a month in their parish? Or Exposition, Rosary, Divine Mercy Chaplet, Stations, etc… Maybe we “loyal” Catholics haven’t even bothered to ask for these things because we think we’d be laughed at and dismissed. But maybe many priests would be willing if only they were made aware that there was a desire among the people. Christ said, “Ask and you will receive…”
The Holy Father can only do so much. It’s us, here in the trenches, that have to do the heavy lifting (and dodge some bullets too).
I’m not sure. I think it has to start with priests at the parish level. The Pope can make all the “suggestions” and even direct orders that he wants, but we’ve all seen how many bishops and priests simply ignore him.
It has to start with a change of heart, locally. I wonder how many priests, if they were approached humbly and in charity, might consider offering a Latin Mass once a month in their parish? Or Exposition, Rosary, Divine Mercy Chaplet, Stations, etc… Maybe we “loyal” Catholics haven’t even bothered to ask for these things because we think we’d be laughed at and dismissed. But maybe many priests would be willing if only they were made aware that there was a desire among the people. Christ said, “Ask and you will receive…”
The Holy Father can only do so much. It’s us, here in the trenches, that have to do the heavy lifting (and dodge some bullets too).
N
netmilsmom
Guest
Dr. Bombay:
And if your priest won’t do it, find one that will.
Here in Detroit they ar closing and clustering parishes.
Our Deep Catholic parish doubled it’s families in 3 years.
Find one and support it.
(Latin Mass every Wednesday. Rosary, Confessions before all Holy Masses [six on Sunday] and Divine Mercy after)
I agree!I’m not sure. I think it has to start with priests at the parish level. The Pope can make all the “suggestions” and even direct orders that he wants, but we’ve all seen how many bishops and priests simply ignore him.
It has to start with a change of heart, locally. I wonder how many priests, if they were approached humbly and in charity, might consider offering a Latin Mass once a month in their parish? Or Exposition, Rosary, Divine Mercy Chaplet, Stations, etc… Maybe we “loyal” Catholics haven’t even bothered to ask for these things because we think we’d be laughed at and dismissed. But maybe many priests would be willing if only they were made aware that there was a desire among the people. Christ said, “Ask and you will receive…”
The Holy Father can only do so much. It’s us, here in the trenches, that have to do the heavy lifting (and dodge some bullets too).
And if your priest won’t do it, find one that will.
Here in Detroit they ar closing and clustering parishes.
Our Deep Catholic parish doubled it’s families in 3 years.
Find one and support it.
(Latin Mass every Wednesday. Rosary, Confessions before all Holy Masses [six on Sunday] and Divine Mercy after)
S
Sanctus
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
netmil(name removed by moderator):
netmil(name removed by moderator):
netmil(name removed by moderator):
At my parish? Uhh…no, but I’d love it
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Yeah, we do…umm, it’s at…lemme think for a moment, oh yeah, EWTN.
netmil(name removed by moderator):
haha, you should see the Masses that they don’t show on TV espically the one’s at the Shrine. Absolutly beautiful, usually all Latin N.O. celebrated Ad Orentem
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Yep, Birmingham Diocese
P
Pariah_Pirana
Guest
The primary reason they do not televise the Masses from Hanceville is because the priest celebrated ad orientum “because mother (Mother Angelica) wants it that way” per Deacon Bill. Why is it her call?
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netmilsmom
Guest
Pariah Pirana:
I’m honestly asking.
Why not?
I’m honestly asking.
P
Pariah_Pirana
Guest
Dr. Bombay:
The Pope of Rome could without question could effect HUGE changes here in the USA if he wanted to focus on our problems. He could replace (arch)bishops, etc. etc. etc.
What I’m not sure about if how the average priest and parishioner would react here in the USA. Many (including myself would go crazy with glee), many might act like the conceeded brats they are. I really don’t know. But he could do it.
What I do know is that the Catholic Church blinked in the USA with the “Truce of 1968” and things have never been the same. Those that claim that canon law prohibit the Pope of Rome from taking a truly active and executive role wherever he wants in the Church are simply misinformed.
I must say, this is nothing more than a whole lotta sewage.I’m not sure. I think it has to start with priests at the parish level. **The Pope can make all the “suggestions” and even direct orders that he wants, but we’ve all seen how many bishops and priests simply ignore him. **
It has to start with a change of heart, locally. I wonder how many priests, if they were approached humbly and in charity, might consider offering a Latin Mass once a month in their parish? Or Exposition, Rosary, Divine Mercy Chaplet, Stations, etc… Maybe we “loyal” Catholics haven’t even bothered to ask for these things because we think we’d be laughed at and dismissed. But maybe many priests would be willing if only they were made aware that there was a desire among the people. Christ said, “Ask and you will receive…”
The Holy Father can only do so much. It’s us, here in the trenches, that have to do the heavy lifting (and dodge some bullets too).
The Pope of Rome could without question could effect HUGE changes here in the USA if he wanted to focus on our problems. He could replace (arch)bishops, etc. etc. etc.
What I’m not sure about if how the average priest and parishioner would react here in the USA. Many (including myself would go crazy with glee), many might act like the conceeded brats they are. I really don’t know. But he could do it.
What I do know is that the Catholic Church blinked in the USA with the “Truce of 1968” and things have never been the same. Those that claim that canon law prohibit the Pope of Rome from taking a truly active and executive role wherever he wants in the Church are simply misinformed.
S
Sanctus
Guest
Pariah Pirana:
Though we have an orthodox Bishop, I guess he was “worried” about the message it would send if all the Masses that were televised from his diocese were all celebrated Ad Orentem–so he drafted a letter/directive/decree (whatever it’s called) to ban the celebration of Mass Ad Orentem in his diocese if that Mass were to be broadcast (note, it’s generalized ‘broadcast’ but this almost excluseivly applies to EWTN) Now this was questionably ‘legal’ raising the question of whether a Bishop can restrict the celebration of Mass in a way which is legitimate–it appears that the answer is “No” but Mother Angelica premempted the instution of this directive in the spirit of maintaining great relations with EWTN’s host diocese by not televising the Masses which are celebrated Ad Orentem.
Now there’s a lot of other information that says the Bishop’s letter was put in place and that it compleatly banned the celebration of Mass Ad Orentem; but my understanding is that it was only going to ban televised Masses Ad Orentem–and I don’t think it ever formally went “on the books” though I could be wrong.
Well, there are a couple of reasons…first there may really be some reason that Mother Angelica dosen’t want the morning Mass televised from Hanceville…it would compete and take away from having the Chapel in Birmingham…but I think there is another reason:
Though we have an orthodox Bishop, I guess he was “worried” about the message it would send if all the Masses that were televised from his diocese were all celebrated Ad Orentem–so he drafted a letter/directive/decree (whatever it’s called) to ban the celebration of Mass Ad Orentem in his diocese if that Mass were to be broadcast (note, it’s generalized ‘broadcast’ but this almost excluseivly applies to EWTN) Now this was questionably ‘legal’ raising the question of whether a Bishop can restrict the celebration of Mass in a way which is legitimate–it appears that the answer is “No” but Mother Angelica premempted the instution of this directive in the spirit of maintaining great relations with EWTN’s host diocese by not televising the Masses which are celebrated Ad Orentem.
Now there’s a lot of other information that says the Bishop’s letter was put in place and that it compleatly banned the celebration of Mass Ad Orentem; but my understanding is that it was only going to ban televised Masses Ad Orentem–and I don’t think it ever formally went “on the books” though I could be wrong.
K
krazykatlady
Guest
When I was in London I went to a Solemn High Latin Novus Ordo at the Brompton Oratory. It was undoubtedly the most beautiful and reverent Mass I have ever attended and I have attended everything from Kumbayah Masses to the TLM. The priests faced the altar, the people sang out the Latin responses loud and clear. Clouds of incense went billowing to the heavens as the choir sang perfect Gregorian chant. Communion was received kneeling at the altar rail either on the tongue or in the hand. Despite what we hear about a loss of faith in England, the Mass in this very large church was packed. Even though this was several months ago I still think about it often and wish that my parish could do this.
V
viktor_aleksndr
Guest
Instruction on Music in the Sacred Liturgy, Sacred Congregation of Rites, 5 March 1967
Pastors of souls should take care that besides the vernacular “the faithful also know how to say or sing, in Latin also, those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them.”
When the bishops asked for the entire Mass in the vernacular, Pope Paul VI granted this, but continued to ***insist on the people being able to pray the “ordinary parts” (that is, those that remain the same in every Mass, such as the dialogues “Dominus vobiscum” “Et cum spiritu tuo,” Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, Pater Noster, Agnus Dei etc.) in Latin ***and ALSO according to the simple Gregorian chant modes. Thus,
Iubilate Deo, Preface, Pope Paul VI, 14 April 1974
Pastors of souls should take care that besides the vernacular “the faithful also know how to say or sing, in Latin also, those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them.”
When the bishops asked for the entire Mass in the vernacular, Pope Paul VI granted this, but continued to ***insist on the people being able to pray the “ordinary parts” (that is, those that remain the same in every Mass, such as the dialogues “Dominus vobiscum” “Et cum spiritu tuo,” Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, Pater Noster, Agnus Dei etc.) in Latin ***and ALSO according to the simple Gregorian chant modes. Thus,
Iubilate Deo, Preface, Pope Paul VI, 14 April 1974
The Bond of Unity. The Second Vatican Council in the “Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy” added the following reminder to its exhortation that vernacular languages should have a suitable place in liturgical celebration: It should be arranged that the faithful can say or sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass that belongs to them.
D
Dr.Bombay
Guest
Pariah Pirana:
However, for whatever reason, the post-Conciliar Popes have decided collegiality with their brother bishops is more important than disciplining wayward shepherds. I know it’s still early, but Benedict XVI doesn’t seem to have a radically different opinion.
What is the “Truce of 1968?” I spent most of that year safely ensconced in my mother’s womb so I’m not familiar with it.
You and I both would be gleeful if the Pope dropped the hammer.
However, for whatever reason, the post-Conciliar Popes have decided collegiality with their brother bishops is more important than disciplining wayward shepherds. I know it’s still early, but Benedict XVI doesn’t seem to have a radically different opinion.
What is the “Truce of 1968?” I spent most of that year safely ensconced in my mother’s womb so I’m not familiar with it.
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netmilsmom
Guest
Dr. Bombay:
(I would be gleeful too!)
Patience, my friend, and prayer!
(I would be gleeful too!)
R
rcn
Guest
Dr. Bombay:
My guess is that you won’t find any, and therefore you’re not likely to see any “hammers” dropping in the future. Because, you see, the Church doesn’t operate in the petty, vengeful manner that would probably satisfy you.
I would be intensely curious to know what is envisioned by the phrase “drop the hammer”. Note that I’m NOT asking for what you would do personally. I’m interested in examples from the recent past (100 years, let’s say) - examples of the sort of disciplinary action that many of you seem to think is so desperately needed.
My guess is that you won’t find any, and therefore you’re not likely to see any “hammers” dropping in the future. Because, you see, the Church doesn’t operate in the petty, vengeful manner that would probably satisfy you.
D
Dr.Bombay
Guest
You know, drop the hammer. Remove recalcitrant bishops from their sees. Suspend priests who question well-established Church teachings and scandalize the faithful
Of course there won’t be many examples from the past. Why? Because it wasn’t necessary. It used to be that bishops and priests were loyal to the pope and actually believed what the Church teaches. And those who weren’t were smart enough to keep their ignorant mouths shut for fear they’d have, if I may coin a phrase, the hammer dropped on them.
Capice?
R
rcn
Guest
Dr. Bombay:
It won’t happen now because it’s not necessary now. And, because the Church simply does not operate in a petty and spiteful way.
It didn’t happen before because it wasn’t necessary before. But, I’m sure there were just as many people running around lamenting “scandals” a hundred years ago, as there are now. It’s just that a hundred years ago, they didn’t have the Internet to whip themselves into a froth over every little thing.
It won’t happen now because it’s not necessary now. And, because the Church simply does not operate in a petty and spiteful way.
B
BlueRain
Guest
I attend Mass in Spanish with my family. I do wish that some Latin would be used. But I enjoy the music played during many ceremonies.
F
Fogny
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Fogny
Kinda like the second coming for the early church,have patience,but I think that’s what it’s gonna take.
Fogny
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netmilsmom
Guest
And prayer!
D
Dr.Bombay
Guest
Bah! Every little thing, indeed! If all we had to worry about was a little hand holding during the Our Father, we’d have nothing to complain about. But the problems in the Church, especially in the West, go far beyond that and you know it.
And I don’t consider enforcing Church discipline to be “petty and spiteful” at all. What’s the point of having rules if they aren’t going to be enforced? I’m not one of those who thinks if Pius XII were Pope today, he’d really crack the whip. On the contrary, if Pius XII had been confronted with the level of dissent from within the Church in his day, I think he would’ve handled it much the same way that Paul VI and JP II did. Pius XII was pontiff during a relatively tranquil time for the Church. Yes, I know, WWII, but that was an external threat. What we have today is far more insidious because it attacks the Church from within.
I agree that Benedict XVI is not likely to be any harder on dissent than his immediate predecessors, but if he is, I don’t think it’s petty. He’s got souls to protect.
D
Detroit_Sue
Guest
Yep, we do!! :yup:
- Status