EWTN-type Holy Mass

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Well, it’s not a exactly a parish, but the Norbertine Monastary in Tehachapi, California offers a N.O. mass in Latin and in ad orientum (or however you spell it!). All of the songs are sung in Gregorian chant, it’s quite beautiful. However, the chapel is very small as they are in the process of building a bigger one.
 
Bah! Every little thing, indeed! If all we had to worry about was a little hand holding during the Our Father, we’d have nothing to complain about. But the problems in the Church, especially in the West, go far beyond that and you know it.
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And I don’t consider enforcing Church discipline to be “petty and spiteful” at all. What’s the point of having rules if they aren’t going to be enforced? I’m not one of those who thinks if Pius XII were Pope today, he’d really crack the whip. On the contrary, if Pius XII had been confronted with the level of dissent from within the Church in his day, I think he would’ve handled it much the same way that Paul VI and JP II did. Pius XII was pontiff during a relatively tranquil time for the Church. Yes, I know, WWII, but that was an external threat. What we have today is far more insidious because it attacks the Church from within.
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I agree that Benedict XVI is not likely to be any harder on dissent than his immediate predecessors, but if he is, I don’t think it’s petty. He’s got souls to protect.
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Please study up on your history, monsieur.
Pope Pius XII condemned many of the modernists who would become the fathers of Vatican II. This is well known.

Pope Pius XII did provide a defense against modernism for the Church but the modernists seeped into the Church from cracks, Undermining the Magisterium by going from seminary to seminary teaching their new doctrines so that they could modernize the Church. They did “modernize” the Church, which means destroy the Church.

Here is Pope Pius XII’s encyclical against dissenters
vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis_en.html

Here’s some for your enjoyment
12. Now if these only aimed at adapting ecclesiastical teaching and methods to modern conditions and requirements, through the introduction of some new explanations, there would be scarcely any reason for alarm. But some through enthusiasm for an imprudent “eirenism” seem to consider as an obstacle to the restoration of fraternal union, things founded on the laws and principles given by Christ and likewise on institutions founded by Him, or which are the defense and support of the integrity of the faith, and the removal of which would bring about the union of all, but only to their destruction.
  1. These new opinions, whether they originate from a reprehensible desire of novelty or from a laudable motive, are not always advanced in the same degree, with equal clarity nor in the same terms, nor always with unanimous agreement of their authors. Theories that today are put forward rather covertly by some, not without cautions and distinctions, tomorrow are openly and without moderation proclaimed by others more audacious, causing scandal to many, especially among the young clergy and to the detriment of ecclesiastical authority. Though they are usually more cautious in their published works, they express themselves more openly in their writings intended for private circulation and in conferences and lectures. Moreover, these opinions are disseminated not only among members of the clergy and in seminaries and religious institutions, but also among the laity, and especially among those who are engaged in teaching youth.
 
Dear Perigrinator it,

Your German byline, if you want it totally in German, including the Pope’s name, should be: " Benedikt, Gott geschickt". Nouns are always capitalized, but not verbs unless you consider your byline like a title. I’ve lived in Germany several years and translate papers, etc.

Pope Benedict’s Latin is so beautiful and easy to understand. Germans speak Latin the best. Latin pronunciation is very much like the German. Latin strongly influenced German. In Germany, I attended the Old Latin Mass.

One reason I like the Latin Mass, especially the Old Classical Roman rite, is that the meaming is fixed forever. The Truth is preserved. The English mistranslation of what passes for the NO vernacular Mass is so painful to me because the truth of our faith is so important. Every time I hear , "Brothers and sisters…, supposedly written by St. Paul, it drives me nuts. I guess we could call it the readings and Gospel according to PC, not St. Paul and Jesus and the apostles.

St. Bede translated some of the New Testament books into the vernacular of his time, about 670 A.D. in England. Now, those vernacular translations don’t do us any good, accept as a historical and language record, because very few can read Anglo-Saxon nowadays.
In order to preserve truth, the language needs to be fixed, as in Latin. Vernacular languages change constantly and greatly over time. We supposedly need the new English ‘translation’ of the Holy Mass because English has changed in 30 years. So what inventive way are they going to ‘translate’ it this time? Which truth of our faith are they going to deemphasize now?
 
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Leeta:
Dear Perigrinator it,

Your German byline, if you want it totally in German, including the Pope’s name, should be: " Benedikt, Gott geschickt". Nouns are always capitalized, but not verbs unless you consider your byline like a title. I’ve lived in Germany several years and translate papers, etc.

Pope Benedict’s Latin is so beautiful and easy to understand. Germans speak Latin the best. Latin pronunciation is very much like the German. Latin strongly influenced German. In Germany, I attended the Old Latin Mass.

One reason I like the Latin Mass, especially the Old Classical Roman rite, is that the meaming is fixed forever. The Truth is preserved. The English mistranslation of what passes for the NO vernacular Mass is so painful to me because the truth of our faith is so important. Every time I hear , "Brothers and sisters…, supposedly written by St. Paul, it drives me nuts. I guess we could call it the readings and Gospel according to PC, not St. Paul and Jesus and the apostles.

St. Bede translated some of the New Testament books into the vernacular of his time, about 670 A.D. in England. Now, those vernacular translations don’t do us any good, accept as a historical and language record, because very few can read Anglo-Saxon nowadays.
In order to preserve truth, the language needs to be fixed, as in Latin. Vernacular languages change constantly and greatly over time. We supposedly need the new English ‘translation’ of the Holy Mass because English has changed in 30 years. So what inventive way are they going to ‘translate’ it this time? Which truth of our faith are they going to deemphasize now?
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I love your post!
My Hubby took years of German in school. Now I know why he gets the Latin more than I do!
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Maybe you don’t feel it…

Latin may not make a Mass more reverent, but it makes the people attending that Holy Mass feel more reverent.

Just like some people “Feel Jesus” more at a Charistmatic mass, Others feel Our Lord much more at a Deep Catholic mass.

We should be allowed both, but parishes in my area Kumbaya more than they Agnus Dei.

(and watch how quickly you are shunned if you bring it up)
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The Kumbaya thing! Funny!!!

We have three 1/2 choices. One is what my husband and I term Garden-Variety. It has an organist from the MBA School of Music, stays within the parameters, and is perfectly acceptable. We have a Schola, which is beautiful, and sometimes includes music and chant in Latin, but no responses in Latin. In Summer, we have a guy with a clear, strong voice who leads and does a great job as cantor, with the Mass as a whole staying the garden variety range.

Then we have what we have dubbed the Kumbaya Chorus; not unlike Ernie Kovac’s Nairobi Trio.

Give them credit. They are there every Sunday. They participate.

They are simply do not, um, er, evoke good liturgy.
 
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OutinChgoburbs:
Then we have what we have dubbed the Kumbaya Chorus; not unlike Ernie Kovac’s Nairobi Trio.

Give them credit. They are there every Sunday. They participate.

They are simply do not, um, er, evoke good liturgy.
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Do they suck their faces in?
 
Where did this Latin mass thing ever originate? Jesus didn’t speak Latin. Why would having Mass said in a language I don’t understand make it any more “reverend”? I have been to a Latin Mass but I don’t think I would go back. Along with recieving the Body and Blood of Jesus Mass is about worshiping Jesus. I can’t worship Jesus in a language I don’t speak or understand.

Part of going to Mass is participating in the liturgy. I can’t do that if I don’t understand or know what’s going on. If people like Latin Masses they should be able to have them. But for those of us who don’t have any intrest in Latin Mass’s we should be able to have them in our own native language.
 
:rotfl: Would you like the preist to do one in Swahili? 😃
I like latin because it is a lot more beautiful than Chinese.
 
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Petertherock:
Where did this Latin mass thing ever originate? Jesus didn’t speak Latin. Why would having Mass said in a language I don’t understand make it any more “reverend”? I have been to a Latin Mass but I don’t think I would go back. Along with recieving the Body and Blood of Jesus Mass is about worshiping Jesus. I can’t worship Jesus in a language I don’t speak or understand.

Part of going to Mass is participating in the liturgy. I can’t do that if I don’t understand or know what’s going on. If people like Latin Masses they should be able to have them. But for those of us who don’t have any intrest in Latin Mass’s we should be able to have them in our own native language.
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Latin is the official Language of the church and the root of many of your English words. If Latin is used in your mass, you are given a guide. It wouldn’t be that hard to learn or understand if you heard it.
 
A young priest of the Miles Christi order from Argentina was in Rome several years ago studying. One Easter Sunday he was in attendance in the square for the Urbi et Orbi blessing. Pope John Paul II gave this blessing in all the many different languages and then at the very end he said in Latin (which this priest understands well) "and now for the blessing in the most perfect language and the language of the Church "…and then Pope John Paul gve the blessing in Latin!
Pater C. looked in L’Osservatoro Romano for the recording of the Urbi et Orbi blessing and these remarks which he had heard with his own ears were omitted!
By the way, Pater C. is friends with Pope Benedict’s personal secretary!
Latin is very concise, much more so than English. So one can immediately see why God chose it to be the language of the Church , the language to preserve Truth.

The Second Vatican Council said that the faihtful should be able to sing or say the unchanging parts of the Mass in Latin. It does say that the faithful must like doing so or enjoy it.

Does anyone really understand what goes on at Holy Mass?

With the Mass in the vernacular, there is a danger of a superfical participation and the tendency to think that one knows what goes on at Mass since the language is so understandable.

Learning a little of another language is possible for almost everyone and it stretches your mind. It is work and it can be frustrating as anything which is worth doing. Just persevere.

Our country would benefit greatly from knowing foreign languages. Look at the problem of little human intelligence in Iraq. Knowledge of foreign languages is denegrated in the U.S.
 
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Leeta:
The Second Vatican Council said that the faihtful should be able to sing or say the unchanging parts of the Mass in Latin. It does say that the faithful must like doing so or enjoy it.
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Ooooooo! Spot on!
 
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rcn:
I’m sure you meant to say “some of” the people. When I attend a Mass where parts are said in Latin, I see people looking around at each other or flipping through their missaslette looking for the words or the translation, which they never find. To most it is just another foreign language.

So I would say Latin makes most people feel confused.
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May I comment on this topic?

If you see people looking around and in Missals for translations you most likely are observing people who do not or have not attended Latin Masses. Those people are probably under 45 years of age. They have not an appreciation for the Latin Mass. I assure you that if you attend a Latin Mass with a St. Joseph’s Missal in hand, in less than six months you will be understanding the Latin word/ phrases of the Mass. Those who dont understand the Latin parts of the Mass just dont try- or maybe they dont care. They have been coddled all their lives with the vernacular.

If you think for a minute you will reslise that Latin was and is the Eclesiastical Language of the Roman Catholic Church. It was used from the Early Fathers up until 1972. That was a long time for the Eclesiastical Language - was it wrong?
 
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