Ex-Catholics unable to get married?

[WholeHeart]

I’m not sure what forum to post in, except the Ask an Apologist, which has never given me any sort of answer for anything. So, rather than probably not get an answer at all, I decided to post in a more general forum as well. Anyway, here’s the problem.

I was baptized Catholic as a baby, but my parents left Catholicism when I was a preschooler and I was unaware that we ever had been Catholic until my late teens (years after I had chosen to be baptized in a different church). Never having considered myself Catholic, I am now engaged to another non-Catholic. Now, I’ve been reading on this website and others that I am now considered (by the Catholic church) to be bound to canon law in regards to marriage. I wouldn’t care about this for my own sake, obviously, but most of my extended family is still Catholic, and I would as soon not make my relatives think I were living in immorality. Am I seriously supposed to believe that the Catholic church would forbid me to ever marry at all, when I never had a First Communion, was never confirmed, and never considered myself Catholic? Will my Catholic relatives accept my upcoming marriage, or am I looking at even more separation than I’ve already grown up with (which, by the way, has often been extremely painful)?

 

[bingbang]

I can almost guarantee that your extended family doesn’t know the rules of the church, and if they did, most likely would not hold it against you…unless they are super catholics that are up to date on everything and anything that Catholics and non Catholics should do.

EDIT: mind you that my mother and many of my aunts and uncles go to church every day and are involved in other activities at the church but don’t know these somewhat obscure rules. Honestly if I were you I would just marry and not worry about it. I am sure that you probably break rules of judaism, islam, and hinduism on a regular basis and there is no reason that anyone should hold that against you.

Second EDIT: if your extended family already does not accept you I doubt that marrying will change that. Also, if your extended family doesn’t accept you I think that is pretty childish and if I were you would want nothing to do with them.

 

[WholeHeart]

Well, it’s not really that they don’t accept me (in most situations they do), but things like refusing to visit my church ever (while I often visited theirs) and a slight awkwardness when many topics of conversation arise, or occasional insensitive comments. The pain was mostly involved with attending mass, so the actual rejection could be said to be coming from the Catholic church in general.

 

[wardrandolph]

Well, it’s not really that they don’t accept me (in most situations they do), but things like refusing to visit my church ever (while I often visited theirs) and a slight awkwardness when many topics of conversation arise, or occasional insensitive comments. The pain was mostly involved with attending mass, so the actual rejection could be said to be coming from the Catholic church in general.

The Catholic Church is not rejecting you my friend.My I ask what religion or denomination you belong to?Respectfully,Rocky.

 

[WholeHeart]

I claim Christianity, no denomination. My religious influences as a child came from Catholic, Baptist, Pentecostal, and other sources.

I don’t attend mass anymore if I can help it, because I’ve had multiple experiences with uncontrollable tears during communion. You can’t say that the Catholic church isn’t rejecting me there.

 

[1ke]

Am I seriously supposed to believe that the Catholic church would forbid me to ever marry at all, when I never had a First Communion, was never confirmed, and never considered myself Catholic?

Forbid you to ever marry at all? Where’d you get that?

Will my Catholic relatives accept my upcoming marriage, or am I looking at even more separation than I’ve already grown up with (which, by the way, has often been extremely painful)?

I believe that would be an individual situation, which depends upon the relative, their knowledge of Church teaching, their knowledge of your baptismal status, and their overall demeanor.

I doubt they would reject you solely based on what you describe.

 

[Gertabelle]

I was baptized Catholic as a baby, but my parents left Catholicism when I was a preschooler and I was unaware that we ever had been Catholic until my late teens (years after I had chosen to be baptized in a different church). Never having considered myself Catholic, I am now engaged to another non-Catholic. Now, I’ve been reading on this website and others that I am now considered (by the Catholic church) to be bound to canon law in regards to marriage. I wouldn’t care about this for my own sake, obviously, but most of my extended family is still Catholic, and I would as soon not make my relatives think I were living in immorality. Am I seriously supposed to believe that the Catholic church would forbid me to ever marry at all, when I never had a First Communion, was never confirmed, and never considered myself Catholic? Will my Catholic relatives accept my upcoming marriage, or am I looking at even more separation than I’ve already grown up with (which, by the way, has often been extremely painful)?

If you never received your first Holy Communion nor were confirmed in the Church, and if you were baptized in another church, and officially became a member of that church (in effect, “renouncing” your membership in the Catholic Church), then the Church recognizes that you are no longer a Catholic. Therefore, you are not bound to be married in the Church. The Church would recognize your marriage in your own church as being valid.

As for your estranged relationships with your family, I will pray for you all. For love of Christ, put your love for your family into living actions, regardless of how they treat you.

God bless you, dear one! And God bless you and your fiance as you prepare for marriage!

Gertie

 

[WholeHeart]

Well, seeing as I cannot in good conscience be properly Catholic, if the the only way for one “baptized Catholic” to legitimately get married is to reconcile with the Catholic church and marry within it, I assume that would mean that, morally (in the eyes of the Catholic church), I couldn’t get married at all.

Edit: And the point is that I’m not estranged from my Catholic family. I’m wanting to avoid becoming estranged, or I wouldn’t care about this at all. Oh, and I assumed that my joining another church made me effectively not Catholic, anyway, but everyone’s saying that the rules have just changed.

 

[Marie5890]

Well, seeing as I cannot in good conscience be properly Catholic, if the the only way for one “baptized Catholic” to legitimately get married is to reconcile with the Catholic church and marry within it, I assume that would mean that, morally (in the eyes of the Catholic church), I couldn’t get married at all.

Edit: And the point is that I’m not estranged from my Catholic family. I’m wanting to avoid becoming estranged, or I wouldn’t care about this at all. Oh, and I assumed that my joining another church made me effectively not Catholic, anyway, but everyone’s saying that the rules have just changed.

Somewhere you have either been mis-informed or you are confused.
One does not have to be reconciled to the Church in order to get married. You would not be considered acting immorally be gettting married.

So relax. You are fine.

 

[Corki]

I don’t attend mass anymore if I can help it, because I’ve had multiple experiences with uncontrollable tears during communion. You can’t say that the Catholic church isn’t rejecting me there.

I used to experience the same thing (tears during Communion). It’s one of the ways I was sure the Church was calling me back.

Why don’t you make an appointment to speak with the Catholic priest. It won’t hurt to ask for a dispensation to marry outside the Church. I have no idea if dispensations are granted for the reason of someone no longer considering himself a practicing Catholic but nothing ventured; nothing gained.

 

[LilyM]

If you never received your first Holy Communion nor were confirmed in the Church, and if you were baptized in another church, and officially became a member of that church (in effect, “renouncing” your membership in the Catholic Church), then the Church recognizes that you are no longer a Catholic. Therefore, you are not bound to be married in the Church. The Church would recognize your marriage in your own church as being valid.

As for your estranged relationships with your family, I will pray for you all. For love of Christ, put your love for your family into living actions, regardless of how they treat you.

God bless you, dear one! And God bless you and your fiance as you prepare for marriage!

Gertie

That’s not true any more. Canon law was changed very recently - now ALL people who have been baptised Catholic (whatever their other circumstances) are bound to Catholic canon law respecting marriage. That includes the OP.

There’s no longer a situation where ‘formal defection’ removes the obligation to adhere to canon law, as it used to do.

Wholeheart, put it this way. You’re a citizen of a particular country. It may be that, like myself, you’re a citizen by virtue of your birth, and not really by choice. It may be that you don’t really have any claim on citizenship to any other country, or couldn’t change without undue hassle and expense.

That citizenship proabably imposes, or will at some point impose, obligations on you that you don’t particularly like, as it does me. I don’t enjoy paying tax, I don’t enoy voting (which in my country is compulsory - you get fined if you don’t turn up to a polling place), most people don’t enjoy doing jury duty or compulsory military service in those countries that have it etc etc. But they bite the bullet and bear with it.

Can you not find it in your heart to do the same in this case? Just to make those Catholic relatives of yours happy? If you don’t want a big ceremony in a Catholic church you can have a very small low-key one instead.

 

[Corki]

Oh, and I assumed that my joining another church made me effectively not Catholic, anyway, but everyone’s saying that the rules have just changed.

Even under the old interpretation, it wasn’t enough to just join another Church. It used to be that making a public declaration and/or writing to the Bishop was considered formally leaving the Church and her jurisdiction for marriage, at least in the US. That’s no longer the case. It never would have made you “not Catholic”.

 

[stuart12]

If you never received your first Holy Communion nor were confirmed in the Church, and if you were baptized in another church, and officially became a member of that church (in effect, “renouncing” your membership in the Catholic Church), then the Church recognizes that you are no longer a Catholic. Therefore, you are not bound to be married in the Church. The Church would recognize your marriage in your own church as being valid.

As for your estranged relationships with your family, I will pray for you all. For love of Christ, put your love for your family into living actions, regardless of how they treat you.

God bless you, dear one! And God bless you and your fiance as you prepare for marriage!

Gertie

A Catholic no matter how many times he renounces the faith is still bound by marriage law/canon law. Was this not clarified a few years ago?

 

[WholeHeart]

Well, then, how am I supposed to “legitimately” get married? I’m not Catholic enough to even be allowed to marry in the Catholic church, and my fiance isn’t Catholic at all. But I don’t want anyone to have grounds to suspect that we won’t really be married!

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Well, seeing as I cannot in good conscience be properly Catholic, if the the only way for one “baptized Catholic” to legitimately get married is to reconcile with the Catholic church and marry within it, I assume that would mean that, morally (in the eyes of the Catholic church), I couldn’t get married at all.

Edit: And the point is that I’m not estranged from my Catholic family. I’m wanting to avoid becoming estranged, or I wouldn’t care about this at all. Oh, and I assumed that my joining another church made me effectively not Catholic, anyway, but everyone’s saying that the rules have just changed.

You are right…the rules have changed. I just went through this with my own marriage on my return to the Church. There was a clarification I believe in 2000. You would have to write a letter to the bishop renouncing your Catholic faith.

If I were you…not so much for your peace of mind now…but maybe later?..I would talk to a priest and find out straight out. I think you would have to get a dispensation form to be married outside the Church for it to be presummed valid within the Catholic Church. This is what you are worried about I think for your family. It would depend on them really in the end as to what they do. Most people would say that they could attend your wedding but might not participate in it…as it might be seen as participating in an invalid marriage (within the Church that is). I do not know how hard it is to get a dispensation…that is something a priest could certainly answer.

I can say that 22 years ago when I was in this situation…I didn’t know…no one told me…I assumed that because my husband wasn’t Catholic that I couldn’t even get married in the Church. I was baptized in another denomination…and didn’t even think about it. Now 22 years later…that has come back to me. I wish someone had told me. So I hope you take this in the love that was intended.

God Bless you!

 

[WholeHeart]

Hmm. I might be able to talk to a priest, but I don’t know any priests! Are you suggesting that I speak to one in the area where I was baptized, the area I now live, or the area where I am planning to get married (in the church I actually did grow up in)? And how on earth does someone like me even find a priest to speak to?

 

[Corki]

Hmm. I might be able to talk to a priest, but I don’t know any priests! Are you suggesting that I speak to one in the area where I was baptized, the area I now live, or the area where I am planning to get married (in the church I actually did grow up in)? And how on earth does someone like me even find a priest to speak to?

Every Christian belongs to a geographic parish. The pastor of your parish is the best place to start. To find out in which parish you live, call the chancery (the diocisan office), tell them you are trying to find your parish, give them your address and they will give you the contact information.

If you are shy, you can also use Masstimes.org Just enter your zip code and a list of parishes near you will come up along with address and phone information. The database is most complete for the US but is pretty good even if you live in another country.

 

[WholeHeart]

Every Christian belongs to a geographic parish. The pastor of your parish is the best place to start. To find out in which parish you live, call the chancery (the diocisan office), tell them you are trying to find your parish, give them your address and they will give you the contact information.

If you are shy, you can also use Masstimes.org Just enter your zip code and a list of parishes near you will come up along with address and phone information. The database is most complete for the US but is pretty good even if you live in another country.

Actually, I do know where the nearest Catholic church to my home is. It’s the place we go to vote. Would going there and asking questions help me any?

Edit: It seems like an awful lot of trouble for someone who really shouldn’t care, but I want to be above reproach as far as anyone in question is concerned.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Hmm. I might be able to talk to a priest, but I don’t know any priests! Are you suggesting that I speak to one in the area where I was baptized, the area I now live, or the area where I am planning to get married (in the church I actually did grow up in)? And how on earth does someone like me even find a priest to speak to?

I would try the area where you are planning to be married…if you can’t get one there…then the area you live now. Do what it takes for your peace of mind.

I do know you don’t have to be confirmed nor does your spouse have to be Catholic to get married in the Church. I haven’t been confirmed yet so I’m still learning…but I’ve learned a lot from researching my own marriage.

Here is a link to Jimmy Akin’s uptake on the new clarifications.

jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/04/formal_defectio.html

I certainly don’t want you to feel that the Catholic Church has rejected you, but I do want you to know what the truth is regarding this. Again…I sure wish I had know years ago. I got married before the new clarifications so my marriage was valid. Although my Catholic family still had acted like it wasn’t. Problem was…they did not tell me any of this! My dad won’t walk me down the aisle…but won’t tell me why. But…if I can help you avoid some of this…then that suffering has some meaning.

Oh…and just call up the parish office…or send an email. I hope you get a priest like mine…I just emailed him when we were considering coming back…and he emailed me right away. I guess I don’t know what you mean…someone like you?? You are a human being…are you not?

Please feel free to PM me if you need further help.

 

[Corki]

Actually, I do know where the nearest Catholic church to my home is. It’s the place we go to vote. Would going there and asking questions help me any?

Good. Call them. Tell the secretary that you want to talk to the priest about a personal matter. Don’t tell them its about marriage. Many parishes have someone, not a priest, do the initial marriage “intake” and that’s not what you need. Make and appointment, lay out your situation to the priest and ask his advice.