Ex-Mormons Why Did You Leave the Church II

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TK, I never said horrible, just harsh. Like I said, I don’t disagree with what you say, I just wouldn’t deliver the message the same way you do. I think both ways of dialogue are integral to evangelization. I’m not saying that we hold hands and say “whatever you want to believe is awesome”, I’m saying that when we talk about religion we need to consider to whom we’re talking. Some are ready for your truths, some aren’t.

I think the big picture here is that I’m not saying that what you’re doing is incorrect in any way. I’m just saying that belittling someone else’s style of reaching out to Mormons just isn’t exactly helping any.
 
SpeSalvi said:
TK, I never said horrible, just harsh. Like I said, I don’t disagree with what you say, I just wouldn’t deliver the message the same way you do. I think both ways of dialogue are integral to evangelization. I’m not saying that we hold hands and say “whatever you want to believe is awesome”, I’m saying that when we talk about religion we need to consider to whom we’re talking. Some are ready for your truths, some aren’t.

I think the big picture here is that I’m not saying that what you’re doing is incorrect in any way. I’m just saying that belittling someone else’s style of reaching out to Mormons just isn’t exactly helping any.
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lol…I only started when I got tired of her judging me and preaching to me…

and something else she did that will remain private.

And what, exactly, have I said that is so harsh?
 
TexanKnight said:
lol…I only started when I got tired of her judging me and preaching to me…

and something else she did that will remain private.

And what, exactly, have I said that is so harsh?
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I think people think you are being harsh/rude because of what you type(d). People will always read it differently from others, just like AD and Scripture.
 
There is a difference between being rude/harsh, and being blunt.
 
SpeSalvi said:
TK, I never said horrible, just harsh. Like I said, I don’t disagree with what you say, I just wouldn’t deliver the message the same way you do. I think both ways of dialogue are integral to evangelization. I’m not saying that we hold hands and say “whatever you want to believe is awesome”, I’m saying that when we talk about religion we need to consider to whom we’re talking. Some are ready for your truths, some aren’t.

I think the big picture here is that I’m not saying that what you’re doing is incorrect in any way. I’m just saying that belittling someone else’s style of reaching out to Mormons just isn’t exactly helping any.
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This is good advice. It’s unfortunate, but I often see many ex-LDS carry with them the very same righteous indignation to their new religions, making them not much better than the BIC Mormons who sit there speculating about the worthiness of exMos. I don’t post here very often, but I do lurk at times, and I think you and Marie are good examples of how we ex-Mormons should carry ourselves in conversations about LDS doctrine and practice.

For what it’s worth, I do not see how the charge of “Kumbaya Catholicism” is justified against either of you two. Neither of you have espoused any religiously relativistic beliefs; indeed you two have both stated time and time again exactly what you believe about Mormonism and what you believe about Catholicism. I find it saddening that some others would confuse your tact and good manners for indifference.
 
St_Nephi said:
This is good advice. It’s unfortunate, but I often see many ex-LDS carry with them the very same righteous indignation to their new religions, making them not much better than the BIC Mormons who sit there speculating about the worthiness of exMos. I don’t post here very often, but I do lurk at times, and I think you and Marie are good examples of how we ex-Mormons should carry ourselves in conversations about LDS doctrine and practice.

For what it’s worth, I do not see how the charge of “Kumbaya Catholicism” is justified against either of you two. Neither of you have espoused any religiously relativistic beliefs; indeed you two have both stated time and time again exactly what you believe about Mormonism and what you believe about Catholicism. I find it saddening that some others would confuse your tact and good manners for indifference.
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Yo your defense, you have not seen all I have seen from one of the posters. So your lack of knowledge on this is noted and forgiven.
 
St_Nephi said:
This is good advice. It’s unfortunate, but I often see many ex-LDS carry with them the very same righteous indignation to their new religions, making them not much better than the BIC Mormons who sit there speculating about the worthiness of exMos. I don’t post here very often, but I do lurk at times, and I think you and Marie are good examples of how we ex-Mormons should carry ourselves in conversations about LDS doctrine and practice.

For what it’s worth, I do not see how the charge of “Kumbaya Catholicism” is justified against either of you two. Neither of you have espoused any religiously relativistic beliefs; indeed you two have both stated time and time again exactly what you believe about Mormonism and what you believe about Catholicism. I find it saddening that some others would confuse your tact and good manners for indifference.
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What you are describing is a common reaction that anyone may have after being lied to on critical issues.

Think of all the people who lost their homes during the housing crisis because they were lied to by predatory lenders. Their reactions were based on losing their homes. Exmormons reactions based on their eternal salvation.

Can you blame them for being honked off?

Now, as far as the “Kumbaya Catholicism”, I suggest you do a little more research on that before you make that call. I’m thinking you haven’t really reviewed the posting history of several.

Just sayin.
 
I’m accustomed to Mormons trying to silence former Mormons. Catholics trying to silence us is new. The approaches are different, but same. Mormons say we’re bitter and angry, don’t know what we’re talking about (regardless of how long we were LDS) and are ANTIMORMON. The Catholics say we’re “injured” and so what we have to say is mean and vindictive. Sort of the same thing, bitter and angry or mean and vindictive.

🤷

Either way, what I see are people who have a need to tell us and others how we feel, with an agenda that aims to silence us.
 
TK, I am going to be blunt. I find your posts to be among the most stubborn and uncharitable of former Mormon posters. I am not going to tell you what to do, but if I had arrived at CAF and everyone spoke of Mormons and Mormonism like you do I would have never come back after the first day. If a person can express their point in a gracious manner then they should.
 
RebeccaJ said:
I’m accustomed to Mormons trying to silence former Mormons.** Catholics trying to silence us is new. **The approaches are different, but same. Mormons say we’re bitter and angry, don’t know what we’re talking about (regardless of how long we were LDS) and are ANTIMORMON. The Catholics say we’re “injured” and so what we have to say is mean and vindictive. Sort of the same thing, bitter and angry or mean and vindictive.
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Perhaps it’s because cradle Catholics have experienced the vindictive/bitter/angry statements of ex-Catholics (and/or non-Catholics). **We know how fruitless it is **to have any sort of reasonable interchange when such emotions are the predominant factor. The main message conveyed by such words is ridicule/disgust/hate. Any religious content, – the truths about Our Lord and His Church – just gets completely buried under the negativity and anger which the words convey.

I once registered on a well known non-Catholic forum. The most vitriolic, rediculing, sarcastic responder claimed to be a former Catholic. I did not remain there long, because there was no point – and the temptation to respond in kind was almost more than I could resist. (I have enough sins against charity without adding to the list!)
Either way, what I see are people who have a need to tell us and others how we feel, with an agenda that aims to silence us.
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It’s not an agenda to silence, but to try to persuade Catholics to share the truths of our faith in a positive, loving manner that reflects rather than conflicts with the positive and loving content of those truths. The only thing we’re trying to silence are negative, uncharitable accusations. I’m not concerned about the tone of the non-Catholic’s posts; but I am very concerned about the tone of Catholic responses. We ought to be strong enough to endure some verbal persecution without responding in kind. I realize it takes the strength of controlling our emotions and not letting them rule our thinking and responses, but we need to do it if our true aim is to bring people to the truth. If we can’t respond charitably on a certain thread, then I don’t think we should participate.

I’ve held off for 2 days posting about this because I didn’t want to criticize fellow, committed Catholics. I hope I have managed to do it charitably.
God bless,
Nita
 
RebeccaJ said:
I’m accustomed to Mormons trying to silence former Mormons. Catholics trying to silence us is new. The approaches are different, but same. Mormons say we’re bitter and angry, don’t know what we’re talking about (regardless of how long we were LDS) and are ANTIMORMON. The Catholics say we’re “injured” and so what we have to say is mean and vindictive. Sort of the same thing, bitter and angry or mean and vindictive.

🤷

Either way, what I see are people who have a need to tell us and others how we feel, with an agenda that aims to silence us.
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Sorry Rebecca, but I see no Catholics here trying to silence you (or anyone else for that matter). All I see are two specific ex-Mormon Catholics (Marie and SpeSalvi) encouraging ex-Mormons to choose our words carefully, to speak tactfully, and consider the shoe on the other foot. This isn’t the same as silencing you, this isn’t the same as “sugarcoating the truth” or even dispensing with the truth entirely, as some others have suggested.

Personally, I don’t see your posts as being uncharitable, mean, or even bitter. I do find you to be quite blunt :D, but that’s actually a quality I find refreshing and one that I wouldn’t for a minute classify as being rude.

Certain other’s here are down right juvenile; playing manipulative word games, asking leading questions, and constantly ascribing ill motives to LDS posters here. This is inappropriate and inexcusable, no matter how wronged we may feel, and no matter how much we may believe the LDS have lied to us.
 
truthseeker32 said:
TK, I am going to be blunt. I find your posts to be among the most stubborn and uncharitable of former Mormon posters. I am not going to tell you what to do, but if I had arrived at CAF and everyone spoke of Mormons and Mormonism like you do I would have never come back after the first day. If a person can express their point in a gracious manner then they should.
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Thank you!

Then I am doing something right!
 
St_Nephi said:
Sorry Rebecca, but I see no Catholics here trying to silence you (or anyone else for that matter). All I see are two specific ex-Mormon Catholics (Marie and SpeSalvi) encouraging ex-Mormons to choose our words carefully, to speak tactfully, and consider the shoe on the other foot. This isn’t the same as silencing you, this isn’t the same as “sugarcoating the truth” or even dispensing with the truth entirely, as some others have suggested.

Personally, I don’t see your posts as being uncharitable, mean, or even bitter. I do find you to be quite blunt :D, but that’s actually a quality I find refreshing and one that I wouldn’t for a minute classify as being rude.

Certain other’s here are down right juvenile; playing manipulative word games, asking leading questions, and constantly ascribing ill motives to LDS posters here. This is inappropriate and inexcusable, no matter how wronged we may feel, and no matter how much we may believe the LDS have lied to us.
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Why did you leave Mormonism?
 
Stephen168 said:
Why did you leave Mormonism?
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Through a very long and arduous time of study I came to learn that the LDS Church isn’t what she says she is. Native Americans are not Jews, there were no golden plates, and Joseph Smith had no supernatural ability to translate anything, much less receive any kind of “revelation”.

Bit by bit my testimony unravelled as I learned more, particularly so once I began learning about the more unsavory parts of early LDS history. The lynchpin was the Book of Abraham. There’s just no nice way to spin it: Joseph Smith said it was X, we matter-of-fact have the manuscripts today, and Egyptologists have definitively shown that they are not X. It is thus entirely untenable to regard Joseph Smith as a prophet. At this point I resigned from the Church.
 
St_Nephi said:
Through a very long and arduous time of study I came to learn that the LDS Church isn’t what she says she is. Native Americans are not Jews, there were no golden plates, and Joseph Smith had no supernatural ability to translate anything, much less receive any kind of “revelation”.

Bit by bit my testimony unravelled as I learned more, particularly so once I began learning about the more unsavory parts of early LDS history. The lynchpin was the Book of Abraham. There’s just no nice way to spin it: Joseph Smith said it was X, we matter-of-fact have the manuscripts today, and Egyptologists have definitively shown that they are not X. It is thus entirely untenable to regard Joseph Smith as a prophet. At this point I resigned from the Church.
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When were you confirmed Catholic?
 
Nita said:
Are you saying your goal is to drive believing Mormons away from this forum rather than to lead them to truth and conversion? :confused:
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Not at all. I just consider the sources of the bashing.

I have asked se someone to show me the error in what I post. They haven’t. I have asked to show me where I am so bad…they haven’t.

I do not call names. I have not bashed anyone to the extent Truthseeker did me…or preach to others as Marie has preached to me. I figure if someone does not like me, they can put me on ignore.

I was chagrined, at first, at what Marie was saying. I stopped posting awhile. Then, feeling like maybe I needed to confess, I showed my posts to my priest.

He said I was simply telling the truth and not wavering…as we have been taught. He said I have done nothing wrong. He said the folks who are “all-embracing” are a danger to the foundation of the Catholic Church. So, I came back.

I can’t please everyone. My posts are not directed at Mormons. Mormons are what they are. I respond with truth so non-Mormons on this board will not be fooled by what appears on the outside to be a great thing. It is easy to be fooled into the LDS Church. I know. I was.

Be Blessed
 
St_Nephi said:
Sorry Rebecca, but I see no Catholics here trying to silence you (or anyone else for that matter). All I see are two specific ex-Mormon Catholics (Marie and SpeSalvi) encouraging ex-Mormons to choose our words carefully, to speak tactfully, and consider the shoe on the other foot. This isn’t the same as silencing you, this isn’t the same as “sugarcoating the truth” or even dispensing with the truth entirely, as some others have suggested.

Personally, I don’t see your posts as being uncharitable, mean, or even bitter. I do find you to be quite blunt :D, but that’s actually a quality I find refreshing and one that I wouldn’t for a minute classify as being rude.

Certain other’s here are down right juvenile; playing manipulative word games, asking leading questions, and constantly ascribing ill motives to LDS posters here. This is inappropriate and inexcusable, no matter how wronged we may feel, and no matter how much we may believe the LDS have lied to us.
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🙂 Thanks for thinking I’m charitable! Now if only the mod here would agree with you.

I think there is room for people to express themselves. If someone is offended, they can report it to the mods. Our earlier “crop” of LDS posters were quick on the report button, reporting every little thing in an attempt to silence Mormon critics (my POV anyway). Also quick to take offense and give zero benefit of the doubt. Oh, and add the tendency to turn every conversation to a personal attack of non-LDS posters.

Now it seems to me that former LDS, now Catholic, have taken on the role of seeing offense everywhere and not giving the benefit of the doubt.

So, it looks like the same thing to me! 🙂
 
RebeccaJ said:
🙂 Thanks for thinking I’m charitable! Now if only the mod here would agree with you.

I think there is room for people to express themselves. If someone is offended, they can report it to the mods. Our earlier “crop” of LDS posters were quick on the report button, reporting every little thing in an attempt to silence Mormon critics (my POV anyway). Also quick to take offense and give zero benefit of the doubt. Oh, and add the tendency to turn every conversation to a personal attack of non-LDS posters.

Now it seems to me that former LDS, now Catholic, have taken on the role of seeing offense everywhere and not giving the benefit of the doubt.

So, it looks like the same thing to me! 🙂
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👍
 
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