"Ex Quo" of Pius X?

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The letter makes appeals to the Early Church Fathers, Scripture, and the Teachings of the Church. How many Eastern Catholics would agree with these being “errors” though?

Is Ven. Pius XII re-affirming the infallible teachings of the Church? And if so, how come so many Eastern Catholics disregard this?
 
ChadS said:
I doubt that it has any doctrinal force other than the fact that it restates accepted Church doctrine. It’s most likely a private letter expressing his hopes, thoughts and opinions in regards to reuniting with the Eastern Orthodox churches. It would be wise to consider what he has written and consider it, but it was not intended to be something that rises to the level of an encyclical or something meant for the priests and bishops of a particular country or region.

Just consider the difficulty of even finding a translation of the letter or that it appears to only be online in the Acts of the Holy See and not available in any sort of translation.

ChadS
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It was not a private letter, but to the entire Church, that Pope St. Pius X wrote in response to a journal article that was full of serious errors. In the letter he instructed that the letter be translate and communicated. It was published in the AAS the official publication of the Holy See.

Extracts:

“…, in a review of recently published, Roma e l’Oriente, appeared an article which causes us great grief. It was titled: «Pensées sur la question de l’union des Églises» “Thinking about the question of church union”]. This writing is full of so many and so serious theological errors, and even historic, it was difficult to earn more in fewer pages.”
…
“You take care, Venerable Brethren, to translate this letter carefully in the language of the area entrusted to you and spread it. In announcing with joy that the dear author of this essay, written with lightness but with good faith, signed sincerely and wholeheartedly to the doctrines set our presence in this letter and expressed his willingness to teach, reject and condemn the rest of his life all that the Holy Apostolic teaching rejects and condemns, as a token of divine favors and as a token of our benevolence, We grant you affectionately in the Lord’s Blessing.”
…
“Given at Rome at St. Peter XXVI day of the month of December in the year 1910, the eighth of my Pontificate.”

(It may be currently supressed to help in the Catholic-Orthodox dialog.)
 
smad0142 said:
The letter makes appeals to the Early Church Fathers, Scripture, and the Teachings of the Church. How many Eastern Catholics would agree with these being “errors” though?
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If the teachings were prior to the East/West Schism e.g. prior to ca. 1000 A.D., then I would presume they would agree with all of them. No?
 
smad0142 said:
Is Ven. Pius XII re-affirming the infallible teachings of the Church? And if so, how come so many Eastern Catholics disregard this?
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Name ONE example of Eastern Catholics who deny any teaching of Pius XII? There are none, in my opinion. Thank you.
 
There is a website east2west.org that at the very least agrees with the error that the Consecration takes place at the epiclesis.

east2west.org/Liturgy&Sacrament.htm#Moment of Consecration

My personal experience at the parish level also confirms that many of the well-read EC do not believe in the Filioque and share the opinion that the epiclesis is necessary for Consecration.

I have not, however, read anything from a EC Clergymen that supports these errors.
 
Forgive the question, but I was unclear if this epistle was available in English in its entirely, or only in select quotations. I would be interested in reading this and comparing/contrasting it to other statements the Catholic Church have made about Orthodoxy. Thanks!
 
dcointin,

My dear Orthodox brother to the best of my knowledge this letter’s only available English translation can be found in Denzinger’s Sources of Catholic Dogma. I believe an earlier poster posted that in its entirety, but if not I can post it on here later.
 
smad0142 said:
dcointin,

My dear Orthodox brother to the best of my knowledge this letter’s only available English translation can be found in Denzinger’s Sources of Catholic Dogma. I believe an earlier poster posted that in its entirety, but if not I can post it on here later.
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Thank you! I read the excerpt that was posted earlier, but would like to see what else he had to say. I hear a variety of things from official Catholic sources about Orthodoxy that aren’t easily reconcilable. Some, primarily the older sources, say that we are schismatics and heretics that must return to communion with the Catholic Church. Others, primarily the newer sources, say that we are a sister church, that very little separates us, that reunion is a possibility, etc. I suppose the two are reconcilable, but they do create very different impressions. 🤷
 
I just looked at the excerpt in post 15, and that is the totality of what is offered by Denzinger.

And in reality both views, the older and the newer, and pretty reconcilable from a Catholic, Eastern and Western, perspective. For example the whole issue of schismatics and being a sister Church. Orthodox are in schism insofar as they are not in visible unity with the Pope. Orthodox must also necessairly be a sister Church because they have retained the fullness of Apostolic Succession, and for the most part have retained the consistent teachings of the Church. There are differences however on issues such as birth control and divorce.

The new openness on Rome’s part to allow inter-Communion will, I think, help to bring us even closer together. In addition to inter-Communion I think the Chaplet of Divine Mercy will be key in brining the Churches back into communion. I don’t think it was by accident that Our Lord quoted the Divine Liturgy by ending the Chaplet with “Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal have mercy on us.”
 
Thanks guys…I was wanting to read it out of curiosity. I thought it was an encyclical. I’m bummed that there is no English translation, but I’ll do what I can with the Latin.
 
smad0142 said:
What is the doctrinal force of this statement?

I have my own ideas, but I’d like to see what some of the learned posters out there think.
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Beyond saying it’s not considered infallibly taught by the Catholic Church, I’m not sure how to further clarify it’s doctrinal force.
 
This is a portion of what Pope Pius X responded to, the portion regarding the epiclesis.

From Maximilian of Saxony, published in Roma e l’Orient 1 (1910), 25:

“…Nevertheless, it would be so easy to reconcile the two points of view. One would only have to say that it is the words of our Lord which cause the sacrament, because they ought to correspond to the truth, but that these words produce their effect in consequence of the consecration of the Church and because of her intention. Since, then, in the Roman liturgy the consecration consists solely of our Lord’s words, these produce their effect immediately, as soon as they are pronounced. Since, on the other hand, in the oriental Church, and according to her intentions, the epiclesis, which follows our Lord’s words, is the principal part of the consecration and its completion, it follows that in the East the words produce their effect through the epiclesis and that our Lord is only present when the epiclesis is concluded.”

Regarding the response to Maximilian of Saxony:

“He [Pope Pius X] simply rejects the putting off of the “moment of consecration” until the epiclesis proper.”

From The Eucharistic Epiclesis… (John McKenna), p. 88
 
Vince,

Why do you say that? His appeals to the Fathers, Tradition, and Scripture seem to imply that he is re-stating something that has been consistently taught. Can you explain how you arrived at that position a little more? Thanks!!
 
Why do you say that Ven. Pius XII is not re-iterating the constant, authoritative (sp?), and infallible teaching of the Church?
 
smad0142 said:
Why do you say that Ven. Pius XII is not re-iterating the constant, authoritative (sp?), and infallible teaching of the Church?
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Again, sorry, but can you clarify? Where did I say that Pius XII is not reiterating the teaching of the Church?
 
Sorry, I’ve been doing alot with that Pope lately. Same question, just put St. Pius X in there instead.
 
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