Ex Spouse & Intimacy

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CatwomanLinda

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I had a very short marriage to a man, we are both Catholic, and the marriage was in the Catholic Church. Right after we were married, I mean the very day and week and honeymoon, some very bad things happened and I moved out 12 days later, filed for divorce an it was final within two months. I told my former spouse that I would give 6-12 months to observe changes he said he would make with issues he has, namely, alcoholism and emotional abuse. He is a brilliant and succesful and strong willed man, and I would like to believe he can change. While we have a civil divorce, I have not sold my ring and I have not sought an annullment although I could obtain an annullment if I felt things were truly over.

My question is this: Since the Catholic Church still spiritually regards us as being married absent the marriage being annulled, would intimacy then, NOT be fornication? Or is being chaste during this period of observation and hopefully, reconciliation, in accordance with Catholic Church doctrine? I would like to go talk to my priest about this, but I’m embarassed to do so.

thanks for whatever clarity anyone here can give me.
 
It would be adultery.

Adultery

[2380](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/2380.htm’)😉 *Adultery *refers to marital infidelity. When two partners, of whom at least one is married to another party, have sexual relations - even transient ones - they commit adultery. Christ condemns even adultery of mere desire.171 The sixth commandment and the New Testament forbid adultery absolutely.172 The prophets denounce the gravity of adultery; they see it as an image of the sin of idolatry.173

[2381](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/2381.htm’)😉 Adultery is an injustice. He who commits adultery fails in his commitment. He does injury to the sign of the covenant which the marriage bond is, transgresses the rights of the other spouse, and undermines the institution of marriage by breaking the contract on which it is based. He compromises the good of human generation and the welfare of children who need their parents’ stable union.
 
You are married in God’s eyes. I don’t see why it would be adultery.
 
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oldfogey:
You are married in God’s eyes. I don’t see why it would be adultery.
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Oops! I didn’t get she was asking about her and her spouses intimacy together.
 
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buffalo:
It would be adultery.

Adultery

2380 *Adultery *refers to marital infidelity. When two partners, of whom at least one is married to another party, have sexual relations - even transient ones - they commit adultery. Christ condemns even adultery of mere desire.171 The sixth commandment and the New Testament forbid adultery absolutely.172 The prophets denounce the gravity of adultery; they see it as an image of the sin of idolatry.173

2381 Adultery is an injustice. He who commits adultery fails in his commitment. He does injury to the sign of the covenant which the marriage bond is, transgresses the rights of the other spouse, and undermines the institution of marriage by breaking the contract on which it is based. He compromises the good of human generation and the welfare of children who need their parents’ stable union.
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I think you’ve misunderstood the question. She wants to know if going to bed with her husband whom she is civally divorced from (but not annulled) would be a sin.

SInce the church still regard her to be married I can’t see how sleeping with the man she is married to in the eyes of the church would be adultery.
 
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rayne89:
I think you’ve misunderstood the question. She wants to know if going to bed with her husband whom she is civally divorced from (but not annulled) would be a sin.

SInce the church still regard her to be married I can’t see how sleeping with the man she is married to in the eyes of the church would be adultery.
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I made a mistake. Sorry.
 
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buffalo:
Oops! I didn’t get she was asking about her and her spouses intimacy together.
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Let me clarify. I dated this fellow for a year. We got married. Some bad things a happened to where I could get an anullment if I wanted. I divorced him. We were married only two months. I explained why previously.

I said I would observe vor 6-12 months to see if he could quit drinking. He says, we are still married in the eyes of the Catholic Church and therefore, intimacy is not a sin.

Now… I was born and raised Catholic, then at 29 I had a born again experience and was Baptist for 24 years, and now I have
been a practicing Catholic again for the last two years. Protestants are hard line. I’m single again now and regardless of being married to this man before, it would be sin to have intimacy. However, the Catholic Church seems to have a theological difference with that… unless the marriage is annulled,
we are still married in the eyes of the Church. SO… intimacy is not sin.

I am getting different opinions here. Opinions aside, what is the true teaching of the Catholic Church on this. Is intimacy with my ex-husband, where there is no annullment, a sin?
 
Hmm, Catholic marriage, civil divorce, no annullment!

Intimacy with person to whom you are civily divorced but have not recived annullment would not be adultery.

Intimacy with anyone else would be adultery.

Dating someone else would be sinful.

Also, do not assume that you could obtain an annullment. There is a specific process to follow.
 
I have talked with my priest and deacon, and given the circumstance which I won’t enumerate here, I would have no problem getting an annullment. I guess that is not the issue. I do not want to seek annullment until I am sure the union is irretrievable.

Can you point me in doctrine, in writing somewhere, where this is addressed definitively? thank you for your responses.
 
You might look through the Catechism, starting around 2360, on the love of husband and wife. CCC point 2366 reminds us that conjugal love naturally tends to be fruitful. And CCC point 2380 points out that children need their parents’ stable union.

Now this is my opinion, but if you think you have a valid reason to consider your union null, and if you don’t think you will remain married to this man, why would you consider doing something that might bring an innocent child into this messy situation? Even if you are still married in the eyes of the Church, the Church expects that married people will be open to life that may result from the sexual act.

And by the way, I am so sorry to read that you are going through this. I pray this man makes the changes needed to reconcile your marriage.
 
My question is this: If this man is abusive and an alcoholic, why would you want to sleep with him?

Scout :tiphat:
 
The Church does not actually “give annulments”, the Church will investigate and see if a valid marriage took place at your wedding ceremony or not. If that valid marriage did not take place, that attempt at marriage is considered Null (non-existant, never happened).

If your Priest has advised you that the Tribunal would be likely to find your marriage null, that is his informed opinion – but nullity is still only granted by the Tribunal. Until that investigation is made, the Church assumes every marriage is valid.

So, technically the Church sees you as married until proven not.

On the other side, it does seem unwise to become intimate with someone you have civilly divorced. If you can work through the problems, fantastic. Court during that time, and do not get confused with the added emotion of relations. Having relations, you will be opening yourself and your partner to life. Would it be wise to be open to life with this man right now?

My advice, technically it seems okay, practically – not a great idea.
 
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Scout:
My question is this: If this man is abusive and an alcoholic, why would you want to sleep with him?

Scout :tiphat:
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To answer a few questions. I am 53, so there are not innocent children to be effected here. Second, he largely hid these two things from me before the nuptuals, and went off the deep end with them when he thought he “had me” hooked. I don’t mean to sound cras but is what happened. That said, I love him. It is what it is. He has quit drinking he says and is trying to overcome the mean side with counseling and reading and such. He has a great many wonderful qualities I like and love. By the way, he is not physically abusive. He’s emotionally abusive, as in, says mean things out of anger that at his age, 52, he should be able to control. So there is the rest of the story. As for annullment and tribunals, he violated out vow totally which is why the priest said an annullment definately would be granted. I just want to do what is right in the eyes of God, bottom line, but God gave me a brain too and I’m trying to use it, be charitable and patient and still be true to my faith and myself.
 
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CatwomanLinda:
Let me clarify. I dated this fellow for a year. We got married. Some bad things a happened to where I could get an anullment if I wanted. I divorced him. We were married only two months. I explained why previously.

I said I would observe vor 6-12 months to see if he could quit drinking. He says, we are still married in the eyes of the Catholic Church and therefore, intimacy is not a sin.

I am getting different opinions here. Opinions aside, what is the true teaching of the Catholic Church on this. Is intimacy with my ex-husband, where there is no annullment, a sin?
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as to whether intimacy between you is a sin, consult your priest. But since you ask for an opinion, I venture to voice mine. If the problems that drove you apart are bad enough for divorce and annulment, and if he has not addressed those problems and overcome them through therapy etc., if you resume marital relations with him you are making the mistake of your life. You both need counselling before you even think of it. If the problems have not been resolved they are not going to go away if you start sleeping together.
 
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puzzleannie:
as to whether intimacy between you is a sin, consult your priest. But since you ask for an opinion, I venture to voice mine. If the problems that drove you apart are bad enough for divorce and annulment, and if he has not addressed those problems and overcome them through therapy etc., if you resume marital relations with him you are making the mistake of your life. You both need counselling before you even think of it. If the problems have not been resolved they are not going to go away if you start sleeping together.
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Well, I explained in my intial post, I was embarassed to go to my priest with this, being female I am not comfortable which is why I sought this web site to pose the question. I have not initiated getting the marriage annulled yet. And I know, intimacy never solve relationship problem, indeed, it often obfuscastes them.
 
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CatwomanLinda:
…And I know, intimacy never solve relationship problem, indeed, it often obfuscastes them.
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BINGO! I think you’ve answered your own question (and likely knew the answer all along–espeically when you are already confronting a relationship issue as muddied as alcoholism!)
 
I’m a sober alcoholic as well as a new Catholic.

My advice relates only to your spouse’s alcoholism.

Insist that he go to AA meetings. I know “they” say that he’s got to do it for himself, but I know plenty of folks who went to AA to save their marriages, and stuck around to save themselves. Not to mention those who are grateful to the judge that court-ordered them to AA.

It’s a fact that more than 99 per cent of alcoholics who recover do so through AA.

And you go to Al-Anon - it’s for those who love an alcoholic. You’ll meet folks who know what you’re going through - you won’t be alone.

There’s nothing there that is against Catholicism, except a few folks who describe themselves as “recovered Catholics.”

In fact, the 12-step programs are firmly rooted in the Spiritual Excersises of St. Ignatius Loyola.
 
The purpose of sex in marriage is to create children , to celebrate and renew the sacrament and to “feel” bonded. Are you intending those things? Are you being open to children?

I do agree that intimacy only confuses things because the “bonding” is there. It’s a powerful thing. That’s why people who had multiple sex partners often have difficulty truly bonding to thier spouse.

It may or may not be sinful but it is certainly not prudent for you to sleep with you estranged spouse until you are both commited to living out the marital covenant.
 
If you decide to have sexual relations with him, that would be saying the past is past IMHO

Sex isn’t merely about bodily gratification - it is UNION!
If you have sex with him that is basically stating that you feel everything is OK enough for us to have a “normalized” marital relationship.

you are trying to find every “legal” loophole you can without addressing the underlying spiritual problem, I feel.

If you divorced, you were saying that you relenquish your claim on this relationship - or you wouldn’t have done it.

Whatever your decision is, make sure it is THE decision, not try this on if you don’t like it, go for Plan B

That is NOT what marriage is about or otherwise people would be playing this game all of the time.

I did get divorced for infidelity reasons of my spouse, so I am not talking out of my hindquarters here.
I tried for reconciliation, but the lies continued (she has a sex addiction problem - just as your exhusband has an alcohol problem apparantly)

I am a recovering alcoholic - no one can do it but the alcoholic

Have no illusions of “saving” him - either HE will do it or not

Sorry to sound harsh, but facts are sometimes that way

Peace
 
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