Exalting Mary?

[Hesychios]

This is Saint Mary holding the child Jesus…

http://www.comeandseeicons.com/bvm/cap23.jpg

The following is the “Inexhaustable Cup”, which signifies the Eucharist. Saint Mary the Theotokos is praying in the Orans position, Jesus is giving a blessing.

The aura of Jesus proclaims His divinity…

http://www.comeandseeicons.com/bvm/ati21.jpg

This image is often seen behind and above the altar in Orthodox temples,
which agrees with the post by bpbasilphx.

Was the image something like one of these?

 

[LilyM]

It’s a bit silly to argue that because one image is larger or more prominently displayed than another that it indicates greater importance or value.

I think of my own parents - they have many pictures displayed throughout their house of their five children and their seven grandchildren. Some are larger or smaller than others, some are displayed above or below others. None of which means they have greater love for those children or grandchildren whose pictures are larger or displayed above those of others.

Just in regard your comment, though, I’ve seen the EWTN chapel televised numerous times. When you see the WHOLE front of the chapel in one shot (and much of the time you don’t), by far the largest and most prominent image is the huge San Damiano crucifix at the back - it’s placed well above the smaller decorations that are in the area directly around the altar.

 

[Rolltide]

Again, so Mary could have said “no”? Again, God is Sovereign. The Bible is clear of that. He is in control. He has a plan. No, God doesn’t force every single thing upon us, but in many cases things are predestined. For instance: the fall was all a part of God’s plan.

God’s omnipotence works something like this, and I realize that this is an odd analogy:

Think of God as an NFL official who is also a football commentator for ESPN. It is the end of the season, and the Super Bowl is over. God is giving a report on the season in review.

Since all the games have been played, God knows every score, every play, and the outcome of every down. He knows who caught the ball, and who failed to make a tackle. He can analyze every aspect, or watch it in slow motion. God has knowledge of everything that happened that season.

As an NFL official, God also constructed the rules of the game. He picked the people who would officiate, and used the “instant replay” when necessary to overturn a few bad decisions, in order to make sure that the rules that he set came out the way they were intended.

Now, that said, God did not actually interfere in any of the plays, nor did he play the game for the people. Each coach, and player could have made any decision they chose. In a given situation, a quarterback could have opted to run the ball, make a pass, take a knee, or, heaven forbid, even throw the game. God did not make any of these decisions. He granted the players free will to play however they desired. This, however, does not in any way impact the fact that God still knows what happened, since it’s the end of the season, nor does it change the fact that God provided the rules to the game.

Eternity is a difficult concept, and it works a bit like that. Imagine God sitting at the end of time looking back at everything that has happened and knowing the outcome. He was able to construct rules… a plan… but still give us free will. It is a daunting concept to wrap one’s mind around.

 

[TristanCross]

God’s omnipotence works something like this, and I realize that this is an odd analogy:

Think of God as an NFL official who is also a football commentator for ESPN. It is the end of the season, and the Super Bowl is over. God is giving a report on the season in review.

Since all the games have been played, God knows every score, every play, and the outcome of every down. He knows who caught the ball, and who failed to make a tackle. He can analyze every aspect, or watch it in slow motion. God has knowledge of everything that happened that season.

As an NFL official, God also constructed the rules of the game. He picked the people who would officiate, and used the “instant replay” when necessary to overturn a few bad decisions, in order to make sure that the rules that he set came out the way they were intended.

Now, that said, God did not actually interfere in any of the plays, nor did he play the game for the people. Each coach, and player could have made any decision they chose. In a given situation, a quarterback could have opted to run the ball, make a pass, take a knee, or, heaven forbid, even throw the game. God did not make any of these decisions. He granted the players free will to play however they desired. This, however, does not in any way impact the fact that God still knows what happened, since it’s the end of the season, nor does it change the fact that God provided the rules to the game.

Eternity is a difficult concept, and it works a bit like that. Imagine God sitting at the end of time looking back at everything that has happened and knowing the outcome. He was able to construct rules… a plan… but still give us free will. It is a daunting concept to wrap one’s mind around.

That was actually a really good analogy. Thanks

 

[PJM]

=TristanCross;5487518]I’m sorry, but you’re dead wrong. That position is filled by CHRIST JESUS. She doesn’t even compare. Sure, she is blessed. She isn’t “the most perfect”.

By saying she is perfect, you exalt her, for only God is good and perfect. Jesus said it Himself

I believe what I said was “perfected” NOT born perfect; made perfect by necissity inorder to fill her role as Mother of our Redeemer, Jesus Christ. Indeed, it was the merits of Christ that made this possible, and the fact that Chrsit has to be both perfect man, and perfect God made this necessary.

Umm…did she really have a choice? God predestines certain things. He has a plan. Do you really think she had a choice to say “no”?

***Romans 8: 29 "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined ***

to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Friend you have a seriously wrong understanding of the term “predestined” in reference to mans mind, intellect and freewill.

From Matthew Henrey’s commentary: Now those whom god thus foreknew he did predestinate to be conformed to Christ. 1. Holiness consists in our conformity to the image of Christ. This takes in the whole of sanctification, of which Christ is the great pattern and sampler. To be spirited as Christ was, to walk and live as Christ did, to bear our sufferings patiently as Christ did. Christ is the express image of his Father, and the saints are conformed to the image of Christ. Thus it is by the mediation and interposal of Christ that we have God’s love restored to us and God’s likeness renewed upon us, in which two things consists the happiness of man. 2. All that God hath from eternity foreknown with favour he hath predestinated to this conformity.

From Haydocks Catholic Comentary: *Ver. 29. For whom he foreknew, he also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of his Son, in suffering with Christ, in following his doctrine, in imitating his life. This foreknowledge of God, according to St. Augustine,is not merely a foreseeing of what men will do by the assistance and graces of God’s ordinary providence, much less a foreseeing of what they will do by their own natural strength, as the Pelagian heretics pretended: but is a foreknowledge including an act of the divine will, and of his love towards his elect servants; *(as to know in the Scriptures, when applied to God, is many times the same as to approve and love) God therefore hath foreseen or predestinated, or decreed that these elect, by the help of his special graces, and by the co-operation of their free-will, should be conformable to the image of his Son, that so his Son, even as man, might be the first-born, the chief, and the head of all that shall be saved. God hath preordained that all his elect shall be conformable to the image of his Son. We must not here offer to dive into the secrets of God’s eternal election: only firmly believe that all our good, in time and eternity, flows originally from God’s free goodness; and all our evil from man’s free will.

As is evidencied above it is first an act of “God’s foreknowledge” NOT an iaause of predetermination at the cost of overiding humanities freewill. Even God [by God’s Will and design CANNOT overide humanities freewill!]

God is in control. He is Sovereign.

But His Soveriginity does NOT supercede humanities freewill!