Examining Our Reasons

[mrs_abbott]

Why, then, do I read that Catholics who partake of Protestant communion are in danger of losing their souls? I forget where I read that or I’d give the reference. But it sounds as if they shall lose their souls over something that is really a nothing.

It’s temptation to “cross over”, I guess. Catholics believe in the Real Presence and Protestants do not.
It would be perfectly acceptable for a Catholic to attend a Protestant service and receive their bread and wine, as long as the Catholic went to a Catholic Church sometime on Sunday to fulfill their obligation.

 

[MariaG]

It’s temptation to “cross over”, I guess. Catholics believe in the Real Presence and Protestants do not.
It would be perfectly acceptable for a Catholic to attend a Protestant service and receive their bread and wine, as long as the Catholic went to a Catholic Church sometime on Sunday to fulfill their obligation.

Respectfully, this is not true. We are in fact told not to recieve communion in a Protestant service as well as have a closed communion and ask that Protestants refrain from having recieving the Eucharist from us, unless one can declare that they believe not only in Christ but in the teachings of the Christ as presented in the Catholic Church. CCC on the Eucharist

1400 Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation and separated from the Catholic Church, "have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness, especially because of the absence of the sacrament of Holy Orders."239 It is for this reason that, for the Catholic Church, Eucharistic intercommunion with these communities is not possible. However these ecclesial communities, "when they commemorate the Lord’s death and resurrection in the Holy Supper . . . profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and await his coming in glory."240

God Bless,
Maria

 

[dessert]

Why, then, do I read that Catholics who partake of Protestant communion are in danger of losing their souls? I forget where I read that or I’d give the reference. But it sounds as if they shall lose their souls over something that is really a nothing.

Hi I’d go with what Maria G states the facts about the eucharist. How are you? I’d suggest a site to look at the catholic of saints and angels it so interesting. Especially about st, Thomas Aquinas. I haven’t been able to get on so much i have so much to do at home I’m not getting it all done.
To me going to communion at another excuse me "protestant " church is like going to a Green Bay / Minnisota Viking football game and holding up a big sign rooting for the CHICAGO BEARS also very bad if you are from Miami ha! Which I’m not!
“Jesus, soften my heart and make it more like yours. Let your love flow out of me to reach those around me, especially those who are needy in body and spirit. Thank you for making me your own and filling me with your Holy Spirit.” Word among us publ. Always in the Love of the Christ Jesus who is The Word of Truth and the Spirit and Our God the Father one in the Trinity Desert, RETURN from

 

[mrs_abbott]

1400 Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation and separated from the Catholic Church, "have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness, especially because of the absence of the sacrament of Holy Orders."239 It is for this reason that, for the Catholic Church, Eucharistic intercommunion with these communities is not possible. However these ecclesial communities, "when they commemorate the Lord’s death and resurrection in the Holy Supper . . . profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and await his coming in glory."240

I know it doesn’t count as “communion” but it’s still acceptable to “go through the motions”, as long as a Catholic Mass is also attended and participated in that same Sunday.

 

[PaulDupre]

Also, if transubstantiation is correct, this leaves another logistical question. If we have no life in us unless we drink His physical blood and eat His physical body, then that means that no non-Catholics will be resurrected. This does not make sense to me, given what Catholics today say they believe about other “Christians”–if that’s what they be.

Glimmer,
You have inadvertently pointed out a major reason for having an authoritative Church - to faithfully interpret scripture. You do severe violence to the scripture to claim that Jesus meant that if you do not receive His body and blood you will not be resurrected. That is absolutely not true. The bible teaches clearly, in several places, that resurrection is universal. The righteous will come forth in the first resurrection, and the wicked in the second resurrection.

Where did you ever get such a crazy interpretation?

Paul

 

[Corki]

I know it doesn’t count as “communion” but it’s still acceptable to “go through the motions”, as long as a Catholic Mass is also attended and participated in that same Sunday.

Acceptable to whom? Not to the Church. Only limited participation at non-Catholic services is permitted. “Going throgh the motions” of their Communion is not allowed regardless of whether you are also attending a Catholic Mass.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Acceptable to whom? Not to the Church. Only limited participation at non-Catholic services is permitted. “Going throgh the motions” of their Communion is not allowed regardless of whether you are also attending a Catholic Mass.

Where are your sources to back that statement?

 

[MariaG]

Where are your sources to back that statement?

Hi Mrs. Abbott,

Here in this thread Church Militant quotes some pertinent information. It is post #21, 22 and 23. The quote I provide is from post #22

1. While it is never legitimate to concelebrate in the absence of full communion, the same is not true with respect to the administration of the Eucharist under special circumstances, to individual persons belonging to Churches or Ecclesial Communities not in full communion with the Catholic Church. In this case, in fact, the intention is to meet a grave spiritual need for the eternal salvation of an individual believer, not to bring about an intercommunion which remains impossible until the visible bonds of ecclesial communion are fully re-established.

here is a link to the original document

This tells us we cannot “concelebrate” or celebrate together with those who are not in communion with the Catholic Church.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[glimmer]

Respectfully, this is not true. We are in fact told not to recieve communion in a Protestant service as well as have a closed communion and ask that Protestants refrain from having recieving the Eucharist from us…]

Wow…not much time to respond today but I’ll tackle this one. I suddenly remember hearing that Catholics may receive communion from an Orthodox Church provided there is no Catholic Church they can attend. Episopalian communions were “out”, so it stands to reason that other communions would be out, too.

 

[PaulDupre]

Wow…not much time to respond today but I’ll tackle this one. I suddenly remember hearing that Catholics may receive communion from an Orthodox Church provided there is no Catholic Church they can attend.

True, the Orthodox have valid Holy Orders and valid sacraments. They are the “other lung” of the Catholic faith.

Episopalian communions were “out”, so it stands to reason that other communions would be out, too.

Yes, all Protestant communions are out. They do not have valid Holy Orders, and they do not have valid sacraments.

Paul

 

[glimmer]

Hi I’d go with what Maria G states the facts about the eucharist. How are you?

I was just wondering the same about you–you’ve been silent for a bit. I’m doing well–just saw my son off for his first job after graduation. He’s out of town in a hotel and I’m interested in finding out how he has fared today.

I’m still wading through all this info here…Maria sent me to some heavy resources. I hope to respond to those earlier posts eventually–this week is a monster for me because of some things going on at work and my son and the excitement and all. But I really, really appreciate everybody’s (name removed by moderator)ut.

I’ve just picked up Scott Hahn’s book this evening, Rome Sweet Home. I am already struck by a few similarities on our path–the part where he was young and experienced a tremendous outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Wow. That happened to me, too. But it’s interesting that he became a Presbyterian–they often discourage such things. I think they are afraid that “gifts” might pop out of people. But given the current insanity in the Charismatic and “Prophetic” movements, I can understand why.

Last night was kind of interesting. I have these other out-of-church friends who are desperately seeking to BE the Church in their living, and we share a lot. We really had a great discussion on besetting sins last night. For some reason this topic has come up a lot lately. I had been reading up on the Catholic mystics and the topic of sins earlier in the day, and when the topic came up later I was already beating myself up over all my sins. We got into this back-and-forth about grace vs. law in how we deal with church leaders who struggle with gross sins.

By the time it was over, we concluded that it is really impossible for us to measure ourselves against other people and vice versa. We never can gauge exactly how we are progressing by any yardstick out there. All we can do is to leave the details of our sanctification and completion to the Author and Finisher of our faith.

I am blessed to have such fellowship, but I have come to see how not only are we shaped by things of the spirit, but our minds also rush to fill in the gap that spiritually we have not closed yet. That is why we are all such a mixture. The Lord does not want mixture, but He does refine us that we come out as pure gold. I went over a bunch of notes last night that I have made over the past 2-3 years. Looking back over them, it’s easier now to discern the continuous and unbroken thread of the spirit vs. the mind filling in the lack.

I see that these wonderful friends have genuine hearts, but I see where they, too, have filled in the gaps unconsciously with their own minds. Consequently, I have become aware that when I speak to Catholics and Protestants about the same topic, their different baggage unconsciously adds to and changes the meaning of what we think we are talking about. I suppose this gets into people’s “paradigms.”

My hopes are great that my ex-Protestant, Protestant-shaped friends will one day be open to seeing a few things from a new angle. They are not open to Catholicism per se, having already a mind set against all organized religion, but at least they are open to looking at old things in a new way. I could have been surrounded by worse. They are people who, believing that the organized systems are artificial, have set about to find the reality of life in Christ expressed through everyday life. That is a HUGE undertaking. I’m just the first one who started looking at the possibility of whether God would actually call any of us to become a living sacrifice in a religious system again (and whether we could remain discerning of His voice against the usual learned behavior patterns that people fall into)…

 

[glimmer]

You do severe violence to the scripture to claim that Jesus meant that if you do not receive His body and blood you will not be resurrected. …

Where did you ever get such a crazy interpretation?

I am flabbergasted that you could make such a tactless statement! It strongly implies that I am a terrible idiot, and *you *do not know *anything *about me. We have never had a conversation before.

Either you did not read what I wrote closely enough or you brought some prejudicial mindset to what I wrote. I was following the logical conclusion that one would have to come to, assuming that if A=B and B=C, then A=C. I did not say any of these ideas was correct–just that one premise would lead to the other.

I hope that I am wrong in my reaction to your statement and if I am, please forgive me. But do know that I do not waste my time if I think someone is just out to assert their superiority by putting others down. All communication comes to a grinding halt at that point.

 

[MariaG]

But it’s interesting that he became a Presbyterian–they often discourage such things. I think they are afraid that “gifts” might pop out of people.

I gotta go or I would comment more, but that just about had me spitting my drink out onto the computer screen.

I know some people just like that!

God bless,
Maria

 

[glimmer]

I gotta go or I would comment more, but that just about had me spitting my drink out onto the computer screen.

Maria,

I forget that you do refer to yourself as a “Charismatic Catholic” in your signature. You must, therefore, have a genuine idea of what I am talking about.

How many times have you heard something like, “Thus saith the Lord, He is going to stomp on all your enemies and make you rich”? :bounce: It gets old after you have been to hell and back. Thankfully, I was no longer part of the Charismatic scene when Benny Hinn made his statement that Adam could fly like a bird! :bigyikes:

My brother and I were on another forum when we ran across this lady who felt herself to be ‘prophetic’. She would post things like, “God is is going to translate us into the cosmic ozone that we might partake of His spiritual ether…” My brother was not very nice, but I had to laugh when he wrote, “Congratulations! That’s the most intelligible thing you’ve said to date.”

The problem with the Charismatic thing is that they fail to put the Cross ahead of the gifts. If they could do that and learn some discipline, these things would come out right.

 

[mrs_abbott]

This tells us we cannot “concelebrate” or celebrate together with those who are not in communion with the Catholic Church.

Even if the participant doesn’t take the Protestant communion seriously and is just participating in fellowship with some Protestant friends? What if the Catholic devoutly went to Mass BEFORE the Protestant service and received the Eucharist?
I just don’t see what harm it could do if the Catholic receives the Eucharist the same day and only goes to the Protestant church and participates in their communion service with some Protestant friends.

 

[PaulDupre]

I am flabbergasted that you could make such a tactless statement! It strongly implies that I am a terrible idiot, and *you *do not know *anything *about me. We have never had a conversation before.

Either you did not read what I wrote closely enough or you brought some prejudicial mindset to what I wrote. I was following the logical conclusion that one would have to come to, assuming that if A=B and B=C, then A=C. I did not say any of these ideas was correct–just that one premise would lead to the other.

I hope that I am wrong in my reaction to your statement and if I am, please forgive me. But do know that I do not waste my time if I think someone is just out to assert their superiority by putting others down. All communication comes to a grinding halt at that point.

Wow, what an over-reaction. Sorry, I will not try to communicate with you any more.

 

[dessert]

Even if the participant doesn’t take the Protestant communion seriously and is just participating in fellowship with some Protestant friends? What if the Catholic devoutly went to Mass BEFORE the Protestant service and received the Eucharist?
I just don’t see what harm it could do if the Catholic receives the Eucharist the same day and only goes to the Protestant church and participates in their communion service with some Protestant friends.

Is there a Eucharist at a excuse me "protestant ’ church? news to me!

 

[mrs_abbott]

Is there a Eucharist at a excuse me "protestant ’ church? news to me!

No, I said that a Catholic can receive the Eucharist and attend a Catholic Church and then turn around and go to a Protestant Church and participate there and it shouldn’t be a big deal but apparently it is.
Excuse me, dessert.

 

[dessert]

No, I said that a Catholic can receive the Eucharist and attend a Catholic Church and then turn around and go to a Protestant Church and participate there and it shouldn’t be a big deal but apparently it is.
Excuse me, dessert.

So why are you going? To gloat? Or to try to get them to eventually come to your Catholic church? Does it make you feel a little more superior? What are your motives? Desert

 

[glimmer]

So why are you going? To gloat? Or to try to get them to eventually come to your Catholic church? Does it make you feel a little more superior? What are your motives? Desert

Desert, I don’t think she was trying to convey that. Maybe she felt that the Protestant communion simply didn’t take away from the Catholic Eucharist.

But here’s a new spin. These people I know who have communion in the course of a common meal with other Christians–one day they gathered together with some people and started breaking bread at the meal. They began to examine the “One Bread” that we are in Christ. Each person would break off a chunk of bread and have an observation to make about the Christ. They felt they were having true spiritual communion with one another and with Christ. But I wondered…what if a Catholic had been present at such a meal and people had started doing that? Would it make the Catholic feel they are in a dangerous situation? It’s not the sort of thing that most people think about when they go to someone’s home…but many Protestants welcome all who believe in Jesus Christ as true believers and want to share.