Excommunciations to begin in October?

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The paper covers a range of issues related to the Eucharist: It suggests, for example, that Latin be used during international liturgical gatherings so all priests involved can understand the proceedings, and it suggests that parishes consider using more Gregorian chants to prevent more ``profane’’ types of music from being played.
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This is actually a misquote. The document doesn’t mention Gregorian chant. What it actually says is this:
The Dignity of Chant and Sacred Music
51. Chant and music ought to be worthy of the mystery which is celebrated, as seen in the psalms, hymns and spiritual canticles of Sacred Scripture (cf. Col 3:16). Therefore, from the first centuries, the Church has considered sacred music as an integrating part of the Liturgy. While embracing various musical forms, the Church’s Magisterium has constantly emphasised that “various forms of music be consistent with the spirit of the Sacred Liturgy,”[190] so as to avoid the risk that divine worship might be adversely affected by unsuitable profane elements.
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I hate it when reporters put their own views into their reporting! :tsktsk:

Also, note that the document was first published in February, 2004. It’s over a year old.
 
Just out of curiosity, what’s the trouble w/ Marty Haugen and Davis Haas. I’m a classicly trained musician, and I love the liturgy, but some people really seem to appreciate the accessibility of the simple tunes and lyrics of Haugen and Haas. Isn’t it really just a question of personal preference. In Ephesians 5:19 and Collosians 3:16 we are instructed to praise God with “hymns, psalms and spiritual songs.” Certainly the music of Haas and Hagen fall under the category of “spiritual songs.” Kate
 
I am totally stoked!:dancing:

It couldn’t happen too soon. I wonder when I might start seeing these ‘updates’ happen in my parish?
 
Kate1015 said:
[Just out of curiosity, what’s the trouble w/ Marty Haugen and Davis Haas. I’m a classicly trained musician, and I love the liturgy, but some people really seem to appreciate the accessibility of the simple tunes and lyrics of Haugen and Haas. Isn’t it really just a question of personal preference. In Ephesians 5:19 and Collosians 3:16 we are instructed to praise God with “hymns, psalms and spiritual songs.” Certainly the music of Haas and Hagen fall under the category of “spiritual songs.” Kate
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Hi, Kate;

It’s been quite a few years since I banned them from my repertoire, so I can’t give specific examples. However, I remember that they both were careful to use only politically correct terms, and remember seeing several instances of lyrics that were not in line with Church teaching. Yes, often times the melodies were beautiful, but it was the lyrics that I had a problem with.
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maklavan:
can anyone provide any proof that pope Benedict had any hand in this at all? We all know that there are some officios in the vatican who are to the right of Lefevbre in their ideas.
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And your point is:confused:

I do not see this as to the right of Lefebre. Besides, most of those have gone sede long ago. The cafeteria is now closed.

PF
 
Keep in mind that when this was written, Pope JPII was in office. Therefore, Pope Benedict XVI didn’t exist yet.
 
Please note the bias of this journalist. She mentions divorcees and politicians who support abortion in the first paragraph and claims they are in danger of being denied Communion (no mention of excommunication, which is a tad harsher than mere ‘denial’.

The Guardian is a left-leaning, Liberal newspaper long known for its anti Catholic Church bias. This document is even a year old so, hardly news.

It is a bit of stirring of the pot, aimed at getting the usual suspects into having hissy fits and sounding off at our beloved Holy Father.
 
I am glad to see that Pope Benedict XVI is taking care of important business…Let us all pray for his continued fortitude to eradicate heresy.
 
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maklavan:
This would have the effect of emptying the churches across the world completely.
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I dont think so! it doesnt mean that in diocesan mass or solemnities that all the mass from morning to evening will be in latin. i mean at least one mass will be in latin.
 
Kate1015 said:
[Just out of curiosity, what’s the trouble w/ Marty Haugen and Davis Haas. I’m a classicly trained musician, and I love the liturgy, but some people really seem to appreciate the accessibility of the simple tunes and lyrics of Haugen and Haas. Isn’t it really just a question of personal preference. In Ephesians 5:19 and Collosians 3:16 we are instructed to praise God with “hymns, psalms and spiritual songs.” Certainly the music of Haas and Hagen fall under the category of “spiritual songs.” Kate
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To be honest with you, the main problem I have with Haugen and Haas is that their music sucks. But I have noticed questionable theology in some songs. Take, “We are building the city of God…” which to me suggests pelegianism or leftist political action. Also, they have a number of songs where God and Christ aren’t even mentioned. But the worst part of it all for is that it is like having to listen to Andrew Lloyd Webber. Its just horrible music. Its sad that so many Catholic liturgy directors and music directors have such awful taste. As heretical as the Episcopalians are, at least they’ve got good taste.
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maklavan:
This would have the effect of emptying the churches across the world completely.
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I doubt that…though the pews might have more room on them.
 
How did we get from the Vatican reprimending the faithful to excommunicating them? I don’t think Benedict will go on an excommunation spree anytime soon. He is very merciful and patient; this was proven with the people that he was forced the excommunicate in the past. Maybe we should be just as patient and merciful too and help these people back into the truth instead of condemning them so swiftly. Many of these Catholics are simply ignorant to Church law…I used to be one of them. :o
 
viktor aleksndr:
I dont think so! it doesnt mean that in diocesan mass or solemnities that all the mass from morning to evening will be in latin. i mean at least one mass will be in latin.
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I have nothing against this,provided that the parishioners give their consent. Frankly, I cannot see it working with the youth. If they find the all-inclusive Mass in the vernacular boring I cannot see them being thrilled by Latin.
 
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CatholicNerd:
Does this mean that we’ll finally be able to burn the heretical works of Marty Haugen and company?! 0_0 Eeeeee!
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One can only hope, especially that horribly monotononous “We Come to Tell Our Story, We Come to Break the Bread”…and strummers who have no idea on how to accomplish classical (or any) music on a guitar.
 
I think you’ll find a lot of those you celebrate excommunicating don’t even know that they are living against church teachings. My generation (I’m 32) grew up and went to primary school when catechesis almost didn’t happen. I remember the nuns losing their veils. I went through Catholic school and I didn’t even know the church had a teaching about birth control until I was 17 and even then didn’t know it was serious because no-one took it seriously. If it weren’t for ONE teacher I had at school, I wouldn’t even know how to say a rosary - and my understanding of that is very basic. I thought it was just a pretty necklace. Later in life I learned these things from a friend who had had an orthodox upbringing. This next generation we are raising now is no different. Worse if anything. It’s going to be a long haul if anything is going to change. I see my own weak catechesis reflected in what I teach my children because the gaps I have show. Doesn’t mean I do it on purpose. Pope JP, shortly before his death, criticised how secular my country had become and Catholics are right there with them. I think we have several lost generations - but who is going to step in and teach orthodoxy to the children? And how much of that is going to be undone by the parents? It’s a real battle and as far as those currently in remarried states without an annulment - they possibly don’t know nor are they culpable for their situation. If you haven’t been taught, you don’t know. I didn’t know church rules on marriage when I got married - so just got married in my husband’s Presbytarian church. If you aren’t taught, you can’t know.
 
I am in the same generation as you, I am 31 and grew up with a lax Catholic education, this helped lead me right out of the Church and only by the grace of God was I led back into the Church. I grew up Catholic and didn’t know what I left until I came back to it.

So I agree, many people are simply unaware of what they have or why they should follow Church teaching. The problem is catechesis and not just for the kids eens but we need to reach adults. I firmly believe proper catechesis is what we need to focus on.

God Bless
Scylla
 
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scylla:
So I agree, many people are simply unaware of what they have or why they should follow Church teaching. The problem is catechesis and not just for the kids eens but we need to reach adults. I firmly believe proper catechesis is what we need to focus on.

God Bless
Scylla
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I’ve also made that point a couple times. One thing a lot of the protestant faith traditions have going for them is the Sunday night and Wednesday night studies. The Catholic Church has seemed overall to imply that once you’re confirmed you know everything you need to and there is no need for further catechesis or any further journey.

After that the 10 minute homily on Sunday is about all you get,and that may or may not really be educational in any way. Very few Catholic parishes that I have seen have much available beyond an occasional Bible study, which is seldom well attended. I firmly believe that the Church needs to visit this issue and consider some sort of mandatory adult catechesis. To criticize the average person in the pew for a lack of belief, or lack of faithfulness, and to consider excommunicating them rather than educating them is shortsighted at best and un-Christian at worst since God is calling to all of His children.

Somehow we’ve got to get past the idea that just showing up on Sunday is all that is required. We need to learn, both through preaching and formal catechesis, that we are called to much more, and see this modeled by people who are joyfully living a gospel life. If there is to be any hope for our children, and thus the Church, we have to communicate the love of our awesome God to the “elders” so they will be excited to pass it down.

Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me.
John
 
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maklavan:
can anyone provide any proof that pope Benedict had any hand in this at all? We all know that there are some officios in the vatican who are to the right of Lefevbre in their ideas.
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Hmmm. You ask someone else for “proof” of an unsubstantiated claim, and then you make a totally unsubstantiated claim yourself!

I, too, am curious as to who you are speaking of. While there may be persons in the Vatican who are sympathetic to Archbishop LeFebvre, I don’t know of anyone there who would uphold some of his more “outrageous” statements regarding the Sacred Liturgy.

In Manibus Dei,
  • Mike M.
 
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