Excommunication for Abortion

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FishHookOpenEye

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Hey,
Happy Sunday! There was something that crossed my mind recently upon which someone may be able to shed some light. I am aware that procurement of or involvement in abortion is grounds for automatic excommunication from the Church. Since abortion is the same thing as murder, why do other types of murder not carry the same penalty? This is a serious question. I’m not trying to be disrespectful.

Thanks and have a glorious Sunday,
FishHookOpenEye
 
I don’t have an answer, but I want to see what others say.

If I had to venture a guess, I’d say it’s because to get an abortion requires a mother to brutally kill her own child, the kind of sin that requires one of the most hardened of hearts to one’s own flesh and blood. The reason isn’t even one of anger, passion, revenge, or anything of that matter, bot born out of uncontrolled sexual desire, then not only voiding pregnancy and not being open to life in that act, but the utter destruction of life. It’s a sin against the child, the woman, the father, and everyone who had a connection to that child (grandmothers, aunts, etc) and even the adoptive parents that could have loved and raised that child.
 
It may also be because they don’t have such a problem with other types of murders. It would be like if lynchings were legal, they might excommunicate for lynchings.
 
Whitacre_Girl said:
I don’t have an answer, but I want to see what others say.

If I had to venture a guess, I’d say it’s because to get an abortion requires a mother to brutally kill her own child, the kind of sin that requires one of the most hardened of hearts to one’s own flesh and blood. The reason isn’t even one of anger, passion, revenge, or anything of that matter, bot born out of uncontrolled sexual desire, then not only voiding pregnancy and not being open to life in that act, but the utter destruction of life. It’s a sin against the child, the woman, the father, and everyone who had a connection to that child (grandmothers, aunts, etc) and even the adoptive parents that could have loved and raised that child.
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I think this is a good answer. I would also like to say that killing a baby is killing the most innocent among us. Even Jesus himself speaks fondly of children, in Matthew 19:
Then little children were brought to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked those who brought them.

Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there.
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Disclaimer: I am not a [moral] theologian, so take anything I say with a grain of salt. 😉
 
Whitacre_Girl said:
I don’t have an answer, but I want to see what others say.

If I had to venture a guess, I’d say it’s because to get an abortion requires a mother to brutally kill her own child, the kind of sin that requires one of the most hardened of hearts to one’s own flesh and blood. The reason isn’t even one of anger, passion, revenge, or anything of that matter, bot born out of uncontrolled sexual desire, then not only voiding pregnancy and not being open to life in that act, but the utter destruction of life. It’s a sin against the child, the woman, the father, and everyone who had a connection to that child (grandmothers, aunts, etc) and even the adoptive parents that could have loved and raised that child.
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What about mothers (or fathers) who kill their already-born children.
Why isn’t it just as bad for a parent to kill their 3 year old child?
 
Uhhh…whatever gave you the idea that it isn’t just as bad???
SugarMagnolia said:
What about mothers (or fathers) who kill their already-born children.
Why isn’t it just as bad for a parent to kill their 3 year old child?
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michaeldaniels said:
Uhhh…whatever gave you the idea that it isn’t just as bad???
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The fact that the Catholic Church does not impose the penalty of excommunication for killing your already born children.

Most reasonable people think it is just as bad as abortion; so why doesn’t the Catholic Church treat it as being equally as bad?
 
Just_Lurking said:
The fact that the Catholic Church does not impose the penalty of excommunication for killing your already born children.

Most reasonable people think it is just as bad as abortion; so why doesn’t the Catholic Church treat it as being equally as bad?
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Abortion is a special case, were the act is culturally acceptable. I think the severity of the punishment has something to do with this fact. The combination of how heinousness the act is, along with the fact that society actually encourages women to do it. The fact that in this case, murder is called “sexual empowerment”.
 
crazzeto said:
Abortion is a special case, were the act is culturally acceptable. I think the severity of the punishment has something to do with this fact. The combination of how heinousness the act is, along with the fact that society actually encourages women to do it. The fact that in this case, murder is called “sexual empowerment”.
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This is a good answer. It would be my guess too. Killing your own child after it is born is currently illegal. There is already a huge legal penalty to drive home just how evil it is. There is no such pentalty for abortion, so the church imposes their own. I suspect that were abortion illegal the church wouldn’t react the same way to it.
 
Whitacre_Girl said:
This is a good answer. It would be my guess too. Killing your own child after it is born is currently illegal. There is already a huge legal penalty to drive home just how evil it is. There is no such pentalty for abortion, so the church imposes their own. I suspect that were abortion illegal the church wouldn’t react the same way to it.
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Maybe I’m a little unclear about what excommunication is. The thread I posted above, by the apologist, says that abortion can be forgiven. Doesn’t excommunication mean you’ve done something unforgivable so you can never come back?

And to comment on your statement, I think it strange that someone who goes out and murders 20 people for kicks is still a Catholic, but some scared pregnant kid who goes and gets an abotion is kicked out of the Church forever.
 
SugarMagnolia said:
Maybe I’m a little unclear about what excommunication is. The thread I posted above, by the apologist, says that abortion can be forgiven. Doesn’t excommunication mean you’ve done something unforgivable so you can never come back?

And to comment on your statement, I think it strange that someone who goes out and murders 20 people for kicks is still a Catholic, but some scared pregnant kid who goes and gets an abotion is kicked out of the Church forever.
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You are incorrect. Excommunications can be lifted. You are not “kicked out of the church forever.”

As per CCC #1463:
Certain particularly grave sins incur excommunication, the most severe ecclesiastical penalty, which impedes the reception of the sacraments and the exercise of certain ecclesiastical acts, and for which absolution consequently cannot be granted, according to canon law, except by the Pope, the bishop of the place or priests authorized by them. In danger of death any priest, even if deprived of faculties for hearing confessions, can absolve from every sin and excommunication.
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Basically some grouping of (mortal) sins can incur this penalty. And all one has to do is go to confession to appropriate authority.

The only sin that cannot be forgiven is being unwilling to repent.
 
SugarMagnolia said:
Maybe I’m a little unclear about what excommunication is. The thread I posted above, by the apologist, says that abortion can be forgiven. Doesn’t excommunication mean you’ve done something unforgivable so you can never come back?

And to comment on your statement, I think it strange that someone who goes out and murders 20 people for kicks is still a Catholic, but some scared pregnant kid who goes and gets an abotion is kicked out of the Church forever.
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No, no, it’s not that at all. An excommunication just means that you are outside of the church. This means you can not receive communion until the sin is confessed and an act of contrition made. It’s like a mortal sin, but you rather than being a catholic who can’t receive, you are not a catholic. Coming back in is really easy and painless.
 
Excommunication for all abortion is a contemporary ruling. Late term abortion has always been considered a mortal sin by the RC church and therefore resulting in excommunication. However, it is not until recently (relatively recently considering the age of the church) that early abortion has been upgraded to a mortal sin. Prior to this early abortion was classified as a venial sin and one of the main church objections was it allowed a women to hide her sexual indiscretions.

(For more on this discussion you can visit the BBC ethics website where a catholic theologian discusses the changing classification of abortion in a women’s hour radio four programme.)
 
FishHookOpenEye said:
Hey,
Happy Sunday! There was something that crossed my mind recently upon which someone may be able to shed some light. I am aware that procurement of or involvement in abortion is grounds for automatic excommunication from the Church. Since abortion is the same thing as murder, why do other types of murder not carry the same penalty? This is a serious question. I’m not trying to be disrespectful.

Thanks and have a glorious Sunday,
FishHookOpenEye
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Do you mean murder, as in murdering your neighbor? mass murderers? violence or crimes that involve murder? I always thought those WERE grounds for excommunication?

Does the Church really not excommunicate for other types of murder? I always that all murders carried the same penalty of excommunication, for which the person needed to be absolved by a priest in order to be in good standing with the Church again. Someone, please tell me that murder in general carries the same penalty…:confused:
 
vetgirl:

I do not think this (early abortion less than grave matter/a mortal sin) is correct. Abortion was always seen as grave matter, but the consequence has varied over time. When less was understood about biology, early term abortion was seen, IIRC, as grave matter, but the grave matter of contraception, rather than explicitly murder, the intentional killing of an innocent. I think you will see that the penalty was what changed, not the thought that abortion was grave matter and always wrong. I’ll try to dig up some links.
 
And as to the larger point, excommunication is intended to be medicinal, i.e., to make the subject realize the severity of his error, and hopefully repent. I think crazzeto has it right - - things everyone agrees are wrong are not automatic excommunications, because no one has to be convinced that they are bad. As noted by others, because abortion is currently legal here in the U.S., the Church needs to let people know the severity of the act of direct abortion. I think an unrepentant murderer could be excommunicated, but it is not automatic; again, everyone clearly sees how murder of born persons is bad, but that is not so with abortion.
 
Just_Lurking said:
The fact that the Catholic Church does not impose the penalty of excommunication for killing your already born children.

Most reasonable people think it is just as bad as abortion; so why doesn’t the Catholic Church treat it as being equally as bad?
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The Church is treating both of them as bad. There is nothing worst than mortal sin, you die and you go to hell. Excommunication is not a punishment but one of the Church procedures/tools to help the individual to understand the gravity of his/her own actions and repent.
 
vetgirl said:
Excommunication for all abortion is a contemporary ruling. Late term abortion has always been considered a mortal sin by the RC church and therefore resulting in excommunication. However, it is not until recently (relatively recently considering the age of the church) that early abortion has been upgraded to a mortal sin. Prior to this early abortion was classified as a venial sin and one of the main church objections was it allowed a women to hide her sexual indiscretions.

(For more on this discussion you can visit the BBC ethics website where a catholic theologian discusses the changing classification of abortion in a women’s hour radio four programme.)
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I think you’re not digging deep enough. It’s true that 1917 and in 1983 the Church taught that abortion results in excommunication, but was a teaching way back. Way back with the Apostles, abortion was forbidden in the Didache. Then in 1588, a Papal bull “Effraenatam” came out and said that it resulted in excommunication. The next Pope revoked it (maybe that’s why you’re confused), but then later it was reinstated. So it’s been a grave sin since way way way back.
 
Rence said:
Do you mean murder, as in murdering your neighbor? mass murderers? violence or crimes that involve murder? I always thought those WERE grounds for excommunication?

Does the Church really not excommunicate for other types of murder? I always that all murders carried the same penalty of excommunication, for which the person needed to be absolved by a priest in order to be in good standing with the Church again. Someone, please tell me that murder in general carries the same penalty…:confused:
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No, in general, murder does not result in excommunication.

The one exception is if you murder the Pope - that will get you automatically excommunicated. Gotta get your priorities straight!
 
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