Excommunication of politicians backing Planned Parenthood ok under Church law: Vatican consultant

[Abyssinia]

Canon law allows for the excommunication of the 62 Catholic congressmen who backed funding for Planned Parenthood, says a consultant to the Vatican’s highest court.

American Life League (ALL), the country’s largest Catholic pro-life organization, last week called for the excommunication of every one of the 62 Catholic congressmen who voted in February against defunding America’s largest abortion provider.

Pope Benedict XVI himself supported excommunication for pro-abortion politicians when questioned about it after the Mexican bishops had warned they would take such action in 2007.

“Yes, this excommunication was not an arbitrary one but is allowed by Canon law which says that the killing of an innocent child is incompatible with receiving communion, which is receiving the body of Christ,” the pope said.

lifesitenews.com/news/canon-lawyer-speaks-on-excommunication-for-politicians-backing-planned-pare

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Pope Benedict XVI himself supported excommunication for pro-abortion politicians when questioned about it after the Mexican bishops had warned they would take such action in 2007.

“Yes, this excommunication was not an arbitrary one but is allowed by Canon law which says that the killing of an innocent child is incompatible with receiving communion, which is receiving the body of Christ,” the pope said.

lifesitenews.com/news/church-law-allows-for-excommunication-of-politicians-backing-pp-vatican-con

He did indeed say that. And then the Vatican officially backtracked and deleted the comment from its official transcript of the converstaion.
msnbc.msn.com/id/18598306/ns/world_news-americas/

Whenever a bishop formally excommunicates a “pro-chocie” politician will be the first time its happened. The Holy See does not seem overly eager to go to war with Catholic politicians…

 

[Barbkw]

These public type announcements from Bishops or Archbishops would suffice:

catholicculture.org/commentary/blog.cfm?id=236
By Dr. Jeff Mirus | May 12, 2008 4:02 PM

Archbishop Joseph Naumann has instructed Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius to refrain from receiving communion until she repents for her support of abortion. Though the order was given in August of last year, Archbishop Naumann made the matter public in a column in the diocesan newspaper on May 9th. The public disclosure was prompted by Sebelius’ veto of the Comprehensive Abortion Reform Act.

Archbishop Naumann said he had met several times with Governor Sebelius to convince her that her support of abortion was contrary to God’s law. Sebelius, who claims to be a Catholic, had vetoed several other efforts by the Kansas legislature to more effectively regulate abortion, making the State something of a haven for late-term abortions. She has also accepted campaign contributions from George Tiller, described by the Archbishop as “perhaps the most notorious late-term abortionist in the nation”, and she has benefitted from Tiller’s political action committee. As Archbishop Naumann put it: “The governor has spoken to me on more than one occasion about her obligation to uphold state and federal laws and court decisions. I have asked her to show a similar sense of obligation to honor divine law and the laws, teaching and legitimate authority within the Church.”

Archbishop Naumann stated that he had hoped through their discussions that the Governor would grow to understand her obligation to take the “necessary moral step” of “repudiating her past actions in support of legalized abortion” so that in the future she “would use her exceptional leadership abilities to develop public policies extending the maximum legal protection possible to the unborn children of Kansas.” Unfortunately, when Archbishop Naumann arrived home after meeting with Benedict XVI in Washington on April 21st, he learned that Governor Sebelius had vetoed the Comprehensive Abortion Reform Act because, in Sebelius’ words, “ the people of Kansas have asked their elected officials to move beyond legislative debates on issues like abortion.”

 

[salusanimarum17]

lifesitenews.com/news/church-law-allows-for-excommunication-of-politicians-backing-pp-vatican-con

The link doesn’t work for me.

 

[ANNE_2]

Anything from MSNBC - which wants the Catholic Church to change according to their Liberal/Progessive “politcal correctness” must always be suspect when reporting on the Church.

Yes, Bishops have the authority to excommunicate Catholic politicians or anyone else who remains obstinate in their public views which cause the additional Mortal Sin of ‘Scandal’.

Former Congressman Patrick Kennedy was forbidden by Bishop Tobin to receive Holy Communion in 2009 for his public position - pro abortion.
(He is currently “living with” his girlfriend, whom he intends to marry at his family home.
Much more can be found on iternet.)

If you have a Scandalous Politican in your area, write (with documentation such as articles and public voting record) to your Diocese Bishop.

lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2010/oct/10101504

 

[StJudePray4Me]

How would that be possible, when the politicians involved can just say “tax money doesn’t fund abortions, just other health services”?

If they have made public statements supporting abortion, then I can see it. But jsut voting to fund? That’s interesting to me.

I also wondered about Patrick Kennedy being denied Communion b/c he was living with a woman. Isn’t the priest thereby assuming that they are having sex? Even if it’s highly unlikely, they could be living as brother and sister, so is it OK for the priest to make that assumption? Or is causing scandal enough to deny Communion?

 

[ANNE_2]

lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2007/may/07050901

CCC " 2322 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a “criminal” practice (GS 27 § 3), gravely contrary to the moral law. The Church imposes the canonical penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life."

CCC " 1463 Certain particularly grave sins incur excommunication, the most severe ecclesiastical penalty, which impedes the reception of the sacraments and the exercise of certain ecclesiastical acts, and for which absolution consequently cannot be granted, according to canon law, except by the Pope, the bishop of the place or priests authorized by them. In danger of death any priest, even if deprived of faculties for hearing confessions, can absolve from every sin and excommunication."

CCC " 2089
**Incredulity **is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it.
Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;
apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith;
schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."

Catholic politicians who publically by their actions or votes support abortion are heretics by definition, not to mention schismatics.
Thou shall not kill. Abortion is killing for convenience.

 

[TMC]

Gotta love these more-Catholic-than-the-Pope “consultants” that keep popping up to insult our bishops. And they have the authority to decide who gets excommunicated because???

 

[Brendan]

I also wondered about Patrick Kennedy being denied Communion b/c he was living with a woman. Isn’t the priest thereby assuming that they are having sex? Even if it’s highly unlikely, they could be living as brother and sister, so is it OK for the priest to make that assumption? **Or is causing scandal enough to deny Communion?/**QUOTE]

There are two relevant Canons. The first speaks to the person themselves, that no one should approach the Sacrament while conscience of grave sin.

The second applies to those who cause scandal with manifest (publically known) sin. In that case, it is obliglatory on behalf of the minister to protect the Sacrament from scandal and deny the recipient.

Can. 914 It is primarily the duty of parents and those who take the place of parents, as well as the duty of pastors, to take care that children who have reached the use of reason are prepared properly and, after they have made sacramental confession, are refreshed with this divine food as soon as possible. It is for the pastor to exercise vigilance so that children who have not attained the use of reason or whom he judges are not sufficiently disposed do not approach holy communion.

 

[salusanimarum17]

At first, the link took me nowhere. Now I get a story about Fr. Pfleger.

 

[ANNE_2]

How would that be possible, when the politicians involved can just say “tax money doesn’t fund abortions, just other health services”?

If they have made public statements supporting abortion, then I can see it. But jsut voting to fund? That’s interesting to me.

I also wondered about Patrick Kennedy being denied Communion b/c he was living with a woman. Isn’t the priest thereby assuming that they are having sex? Even if it’s highly unlikely, they could be living as brother and sister, so is it OK for the priest to make that assumption? Or is causing scandal enough to deny Communion?

The votes of Politicians are a matter of PUBLIC Record.
Catholics voting to spend taxpayer dollars on the evil of abortion (killing of innocent babies) is not only Scandalous, but aids and abets in abortions of others by funding them.

 

[StJudePray4Me]

The votes of Politicians are a matter of PUBLIC Record.
Catholics voting to spend taxpayer dollars on the evil of abortion (killing of innocent babies) is not only Scandalous, but aids and abets in abortions of others by funding them.

I think you misunderstood me – I am referring to the fact that the politicians say that tax dollars don’t go to fund abortions. That they support Planned Parenthood’s other services.

As to the scandal, I meant in regard to a politician living with a woman he’s not married to.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Anything from MSNBC - which wants the Catholic Church to change according to their Liberal/Progessive “politcal correctness” must always be suspect when reporting on the Church.

I’d trust MSNBC before I trust Lifesitenews…

Yes, Bishops have the authority to excommunicate Catholic politicians or anyone else who remains obstinate in their public views which cause the additional Mortal Sin of ‘Scandal’.

Its yet to happen anywhere in the world that I’m aware of.

Former Congressman Patrick Kennedy was forbidden by Bishop Tobin to receive Holy Communion in 2009 for his public position - pro abortion.
(He is currently “living with” his girlfriend, whom he intends to marry at his family home.
Much more can be found on iternet.)

Being asked not to receive communion or even being refused communion is not the same as formal excommunication.

 

[Adeodatus]

Whenever a bishop formally excommunicates a “pro-chocie” politician will be the first time its happened. The Holy See does not seem overly eager to go to war with Catholic politicians…

If they are supporting Planned Parenthood in any way then they are not Catholic. It is more charitable to threaten them with Hell now than to say nothing and just let them go there.

That’s what I don’t get about this whole regime of appeasement, peace in our time, don’t rock the boat baby… it’s as if it were predicated on the idea that Hell doesn’t exist. Do so many within the Church think that our religion is just a bunch of baloney? I hope not. Well if they don’t think that, they ought to start acting like it’s really true. And that means, among other things, correcting sinners for their own and everyone else’s good.

When Theodosius I, the first emperor to make Christianity the state religion of Rome, had several thousand people in Thessalonica executed over the murder of one of his generals, St. Ambrose of Milan responded to the holy emperor’s harshness with an excommunication! Theodosius accepted this, did public penance for several months, and was received back into the fold of the Church. It worked then and it would work now.

 

[onenow1]

I think you misunderstood me – I am referring to the fact that the politicians say that tax dollars don’t go to fund abortions. That they support Planned Parenthood’s other services…

Hi, Jude,
How do they seperate the funds ?

Peace

 

[ANNE_2]

I think you misunderstood me – I am referring to the fact that the politicians say that tax dollars don’t go to fund abortions. That they support Planned Parenthood’s other services.
As to the scandal, I meant in regard to a politician living with a woman he’s not married to.

Never believe any politician, always check out facts on internet. Voting records, bills, etc.

I’m providing this site because it mentions ‘Title X Abortion Provider Prohibition Act’ in the last few paragraphs.
lifesitenews.com/news/planned-parenthood-reports-abortions-up-adoptions-down-business-is-good/

 

[StJudePray4Me]

Never believe any politician, always check out facts on internet. Voting records, bills, etc.

I’m providing this site because it mentions ‘Title X Abortion Provider Prohibition Act’ in the last few paragraphs.
lifesitenews.com/news/planned-parenthood-reports-abortions-up-adoptions-down-business-is-good/

The internet? I’m not sure the internet is the best place to find 100% truths!
I am not questioning WHO voted yes/no-- I am asking HOW can they be excommunicated for voting to fund what they would claim DOES NOT pay for abortions?

According to our government, public tax money has not been spent to fund abortions since the 1970’s, if I recall correctly. I believe an argument can be made that you still shouldn’t fund PP, but I am just saying – to excommunicate a politician for voting to fund PP seems questionable to me.

Hi, Jude,
How do they seperate the funds ?

I don’t know. But it’s not like it’s impossible. I understand the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation also funds them , but forbids their money to pay directly for abortions. I am not 100% sure on that though.

I am assuming that they have to do some sort of bookkeeping. Is it 100% honest? I don’t know.** But my argument here is NOT to defend PP, it is to ask HOW can a politician be excommunicated for funding what they would say does NOT pay for abortions?**

As to separating the funds, I think of it like my school taxes – I send my kids to Catholic school, so I know my County government will not send any of the money I pay in school taxes to my school. However, they do give me busing and textbooks. How do they separate that money? I don’t know.

I don’t think an anti-PP argument has to claim that they don’t do ANYTHING at all except abortions. I think you can successfully argue against them while still allowing that they do provide essential health services to poor women.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

If they are supporting Planned Parenthood in any way then they are not Catholic. It is more charitable to threaten them with Hell now than to say nothing and just let them go there.

Well, they are Catholic. They’re just not good Catholics.

That’s what I don’t get about this whole regime of appeasement, peace in our time, don’t rock the boat baby… it’s as if it were predicated on the idea that Hell doesn’t exist. Do so many within the Church think that our religion is just a bunch of baloney? I hope not. Well if they don’t think that, they ought to start acting like it’s really true. And that means, among other things, correcting sinners for their own and everyone else’s good.

I think the general thinking process is that outright excommunication will make the politicians public martyrs and that they simply won’t repent or return. Excommunication is normally used as a last resort effort to awaken someone’s conscience.

When Theodosius I, the first emperor to make Christianity the state religion of Rome, had several thousand people in Thessalonica executed over the murder of one of his generals, St. Ambrose of Milan responded to the holy emperor’s harshness with an excommunication! Theodosius accepted this, did public penance for several months, and was received back into the fold of the Church. It worked then and it would work now.

Once again, the issue is that most bishops don’t think that the politicians would return. Not only that but antiCatholic sentiment would rise and a very hostile relationship would begin between the Church and “the public.” The Church normally seeks ways to convert people and shies away from “scortched earth” policies.

 

[Adeodatus]

Once again, the issue is that most bishops don’t think that the politicians would return. Not only that but antiCatholic sentiment would rise and a very hostile relationship would begin between the Church and “the public.”

So that would somehow differ from now, when the Church is openly vilified, calumniated and lampooned day in and day out, everywhere? I would think that standing on our principles would at least elicit “grudging respect”, which is a heck of a lot better than we’re doing right now.

The Church normally seeks ways to convert people and shies away from “scortched earth” policies.

Well, except with regards to Vatican II and the Bugnini Mass. As all the icons, communion rails and holy high altars now in rubbish heaps can attest.

 

[Brownginger]

Unless I am having a senior moment, I remember from my studies that supporting abortion automatically means that such person is excommunicated. Thus, he/she is not just a bad Catholic, but not a Catholic at all and the presence of such person at the foot of the altar to receive Our Savior in the Holy Eucharist is anathema.

I agree that most so-called Catholic politicians, were they to be formally excommunicated, simply would carry on as usual. Most of them are not stupid and they know and understand the teaching of the Church regarding abortion; but they place their political lives above their eternal salvation. Sad, but true. Once evil grabs hold, it is very difficult to rid oneself of it. We must pray for the souls of these politicians and for the Bishops who are their shepherds.

One solution to the problem is to work tirelessly to see that such politicians are never elected or, if already elected, that they are replaced by those who abhor abortion. It is frightening to realize that in the upcoming election social issues are being put on a back burner. As Blessed Teresa of Calcutta said, abortion will be the downfall of this nation. Even were we to achieve a balanced budget and to eliminate the economic deficit, the deficit caused by the killing of millions in the womb has brought about a moral lassitude that will be difficult to overcome.