Excommunication of the SSPX Bishops to be lifted!?!

[maurin]

But I understand that you are probably in a bad mood since your house of cards is collapsing around you, as the SSPX (who you have been taught to HATE) is being proven right again and again. And rather than show a little humility and sorry for all of you calumn and slander against them, you attack those who point out the obvious.

whether they be correct or incorrect, these are almost exactly my feelings, CR.

the card house built around the SSPX by their uninformed calumnators is hopefully about to come shuffling down.

 

[thistle]

But if the decree says that the “excommunications” were null and void from the beginning due to a defect in form, it *would *mean the excommunication never happened.

We would have another case of a decepctive illision from those in authority. First it was that the old Mass had been forbidden; then it was that pro-multis should be translated as for all. Rome completely reversed itself on both points thereby confirming that the SSPX and other like-minded Catholics were right all along.

Is the next shoe to drop an admission by Rome that the SSPX was also right when it said the “excommunications” were null and void from day one? Time will tell.

If they were null and void that would mean they did not happen and so there would be nothing to lift. If they are lifted then they were valid and they are now being removed.

 

[bkovacs]

Trust Me!!! Lefebvre Was Clearly Wrong!!! The Excommunications Will Not Be Lifted. Stop Giving Latria To A Disobedient French Archbishop!!!

Book It It Aint Gonna Happen!!

In defense of the SSPX, how many bishops and priests today of the 60’s and 70’s generation who follow Vatican 2 and the liberal reforms don’t give a thought to the EF?. Sure one or two parishes, in a diocese. And at a inconvenient time on Sunday, like 2:00 or 4:00 pm, rather than normal times. It is a fact that there are many bishops who are against the EF. Way more than the four bishops in the SSPX with the OF. So we have a duel, don’t we!. Ponder that thought. I am very happy that the excommunications will hopefully be lifted. Not to sure about Williamson though. He seems more sedavacantist than SSPX these days. The SSPX have around 700 chapels,500 priests and 200 seminarians. More EF priests, seminarians, and places to worship. No complaining here!.

 

[Walking_Home]

If they were null and void that would mean they did not happen and so there would be nothing to lift.** If they are lifted then they were valid and they are now being removed.**

---

If the “excommunications” are “lifted” --it could also mean the “excommunications” were unjust.

 

[Christus_Rex_1]

If they were null and void that would mean they did not happen and so there would be nothing to lift. If they are lifted then they were valid and they are now being removed.

Yes, if they are declared null and void it means it never happened. But I would re-word your second statement by saying if they are “lifted”, it simply means the Pope is not yet ready at this time to admit that they were null and void to begin with.

Let’s wait and see how it is worded.

One thing is for sure. This is a very bad day for the SSPX hates and all of their followers. This is a day that hoped would never come. Now that it appears that it has arrived, you can be certain that they are getting nervous. First they ate crow with respect to the pro-multis, the they ate crow with respect to the non-abrogation of the Mass (and notice how they simply stopped mentioned these points rather than admitting that they were wrong), and now they realize that they may well be eating crow with respect to the “excommunications”.

I’m sure the SSPX hates don’t like reading my posts here, but I didn’t reading what they wrote and said over the years. The SSPX supporters, such as myself, had to put up with more calumny, detracton, and suspicion that you can imagine. The only consolation was the certitude of truth and the pre-Vatican II encyclicals. Since the election of Pope Benedict XVI, however, we have had additional consolations - which stemmed from a simple admission of the truth by the Pope.

 

[Christus_Rex_1]

In defense of the SSPX, how many bishops and priests today of the 60’s and 70’s generation who follow Vatican 2 and the liberal reforms don’t give a thought to the EF?. Sure one or two parishes, in a diocese. And at a inconvenient time on Sunday, like 2:00 or 4:00 pm, rather than normal times. It is a fact that there are many bishops who are against the EF. Way more than the four bishops in the SSPX with the OF. So we have a duel, don’t we!. Ponder that thought. I am very happy that the excommunications will hopefully be lifted. Not to sure about Williamson though. He seems more sedavacantist than SSPX these days. The SSPX have around 700 chapels,500 priests and 200 seminarians. More EF priests, seminarians, and places to worship. No complaining here!.

That’s the right attitude. God Bless you. Hope to see you at an SSPX chapel sometime

 

[Rogerteder]

Actually, he didn’t excommunicate him. He said the Archbishop incurred an ipso facto excommunication. That is different than John Paul II excommunicating him.

When you read what canon law says about incurring an ipso facto excommunication, there are a lot of qualifications, and a lot of things that nullify it. For example, if a person truly thinks what they are doing is necessary (even if they are wrong), they do not incur the excommunication.

The SSPX has always argued that the Archbishop acted out of, what he believed to be, a necessity. Whether you agree with them or not about there being a state of necessity, I don’t think too many people believe that Archbishop Lefebvre did not truly believe he was acting out of necessity; and if he was, the excommunication was null and void from day one due to a defect in form - which is what the SSPX has always said.

Either way the Pope saidLlefebvre was excommunicated. Whether it was automatic or not, I dont care. The notion that “He really believed he was doing what was right” stuff i dont buy. How do you know what he really believed. If he didnt believe it was an emergency would he really admit it? It is nonsense, and that is why he was excommunicated. He was wrong and disobedient, and probably ended up in hell because he gave no indication he was sorry for his grave sin.

Where is this document the Pope already signed. What a joke!!! The excommunications won’t be lifted!!! Take that to the bank. They shouldnt be lifted either.

 

[Christus_Rex_1]

Either way the Pope saidLlefebvre was excommunicated. Whether it was automatic or not, I dont care. The notion that “He really believed he was doing what was right” stuff i dont buy. How do you know what he really believed. If he didnt believe it was an emergency would he really admit it? It is nonsense, and that is why he was excommunicated. He was wrong and disobedient, and probably ended up in hell because he gave no indication he was sorry for his grave sin.

Where is this document the Pope already signed. What a joke!!! The excommunications won’t be lifted!!! Take that to the bank. They shouldnt be lifted either.

Like I said, this is a very bad day for the SSPX haters, and unfortunately it will be getting a lot worse. For in a few short days their state of denial will be replaced by a state of shock and confusion.

 

[BayernAnhaenger]

Either way the Pope saidLlefebvre was excommunicated. Whether it was automatic or not, I dont care. The notion that “He really believed he was doing what was right” stuff i dont buy. How do you know what he really believed. If he didnt believe it was an emergency would he really admit it? It is nonsense, and that is why he was excommunicated. He was wrong and disobedient, and probably ended up in hell because he gave no indication he was sorry for his grave sin.

Where is this document the Pope already signed. What a joke!!! The excommunications won’t be lifted!!! Take that to the bank. They shouldnt be lifted either.

Oh wise and great seer, he who can judge men’s hearts and actions, who knows infallibly all that has happened, who knows the hearts of two deceased men of the cloth, who even knows HOW GOD JUDGED AN ARCHBISHOP! please tell us, what will happen next in the world. I must know.

Also, who will win the Super Bowl?! I can make money off this!

 

[BayernAnhaenger]

Like I said, this is a very bad day for the SSPX haters, and unfortunately it will be getting a lot worse. For in a few days their state of denial will be replaced by a state of shock.

Is schadenfreude a sin?

 

[tampasteve]

Out of curiosity, when the excommunication is lifted (either now or someday) what happens to the SSPX Bishops that have overlapping areas to other Bishops?

Steve

 

[Rogerteder]

Oh wise and great seer, he who can judge men’s hearts and actions, who knows infallibly all that has happened, who knows the hearts of two deceased men of the cloth, who even knows HOW GOD JUDGED AN ARCHBISHOP! please tell us, what will happen next in the world. I must know.

Also, who will win the Super Bowl?! I can make money off this!

I didnt judge anyone. I said the Pope certainly didnt buy the “he thought it was an emergency” argument, so neither do I. Also, if you believe he did (Lefebvre) believe it was an emergency arent you also judging? Your judging his intentions as well. Bottom line is the Pope said he was excommunicated and he showed no signs of repenting. He(Lefebvre) died showing no signs of repentance.

LISTEN PEOPLE!!! THE EXCOMMUNICATIONS WILL NOT BE LIFTED!!!

 

[ibkc]

I didnt judge anyone. I said the Pope certainly didnt buy the “he thought it was an emergency” argument, so neither do I. Also, if you believe he did (Lefebvre) believe it was an emergency arent you also judging? Your judging his intentions as well. Bottom line is the Pope said he was excommunicated and he showed no signs of repenting. He(Lefebvre) died showing no signs of repentance.

LISTEN PEOPLE!!! THE EXCOMMUNICATIONS WILL NOT BE LIFTED!!!

Wow, man. Consider switching to decaf!

 

[603304529]

I didnt judge anyone. I said the Pope certainly didnt buy the “he thought it was an emergency” argument, so neither do I. Also, if you believe he did (Lefebvre) believe it was an emergency arent you also judging? Your judging his intentions as well. Bottom line is the Pope said he was excommunicated and he showed no signs of repenting. He(Lefebvre) died showing no signs of repentance.

LISTEN PEOPLE!!! THE EXCOMMUNICATIONS WILL NOT BE LIFTED!!!

Your conviction is impressive my son. I think if you’d used just a few more exclamation marks might have convinced me.

How did you come to have such a perverted and intense dislike for the the SSPX, and Archbishop Lefebvre?

 

[bubba451]

The pity of all this is that when and if this is announced, many here on either side of this issue will remain unhappy and divided as many posts prior to this have proved. We have expert epithet hurlers on either side–too bad there appears to be no Doctor in the house at this time

We have heard things like this before. The day has enough trouble of its own. Be patient and watch and pray-nananana gets you in trouble and has since you were in kindergarten.

 

[Rogerteder]

Your conviction is impressive my son. I think if you’d used just a few more exclamation marks might have convinced me.

How did you come to have such a perverted and intense dislike for the the SSPX, and Archbishop Lefebvre?

I dont dislike them. I look at the facts, and they(lEFEBVRE)were clearly wrong. He shouldnt have disobeyed the Holy Father. Even if JPII wasnt the greatest Pope you still MUST be obedient in disciplinary matters. Lefebvre clearly was not, and these people are really crazy if they think Pope Benedict is going to lift the excommunications. NOT HAPPENING!!!

 

[Christus_Rex_1]

Is schadenfreude a sin?

It would be schadenfreude if I was happy about something bad happening to the SSPX hates. I was simply saying that many of them will be in a state of shock when they realize their error - and realizing an error and being in a state of shock as a result of it is not in itself a bad things. Actually, it may be a good thing, such as, for example, when a Protestant comes to the shocking realization that the Catholic Church is the true Church.

 

[Christus_Rex_1]

I dont dislike them. I look at the facts, and they(lEFEBVRE)were clearly wrong. He shouldnt have disobeyed the Holy Father. Even if JPII wasnt the greatest Pope you still MUST be obedient in disciplinary matters. Lefebvre clearly was not, and these people are really crazy if they think Pope Benedict is going to lift the excommunications. NOT HAPPENING!!!

I have a question: If the Pope does lift the excommunications - or worse still, declare them null from the beginning - will you admit that you have been wrong, or will you simply stop posting here for a few weeks?

 

[Genesis315]

Did Bishop Fellay meet with the Pope to present him the “spiritual bouquet?” Such an act of good will (plus whatever else was said to show that good will) could have been enough. It’s kind of like when St. Paul removed the excommunication of the Corinthian man in 2 Cor. 2:5-10.

Anyway, the SSPX leadership organized a Rosary crusade for this purpose and if the Holy Father does lift the excommunications, he must also see this as a good thing at this point. The fact that both sides see it as a good thing would be a good sign that it will be a constructive measure.

 

[Eucharisted]

From NLM

newliturgicalmovement.org/

"*The decree will be made public in the coming days with which Benedict XVI has determined to lift the excommunications imposed on the four new bishops ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre in 1988. Back then, in addition to the four (Bernard Fellay, Alfonso de Gallareta, Tissier de Mallerais and Richard Williamson) had also been excommunicated Lefebvre himself and Brazilian Bishop De Castro Mayer who had participated in the ceremony.

…]

Now, with a truly magnanimous gesture, granting the request made by Fellay, Benedict XVI has decided to lift the excommunication. Excommunication that, it should be noted, has always only covered the consecrating bishops (Lefebvre and De Castro Mayer, both long gone) and the four consecrated, but never the Lefebvrist priests nor the faithful*."

Let us pray that the Bishops will respond with humility and be recived back into the fold.

Deo Gratias.

I do my happy dance:

:extrahappy: :bounce: :extrahappy: :bounce: :extrahappy: :bounce: :extrahappy: :bounce: