Excommunication?

[thistle]

Some Bishops in the U.S. posed the question as to whether being pro-choice is excommunication latae sententiae - automatic. The Pope was not prepared to declare over 20 million Catholics excommunicated. However, Catholic Bishops in Mexico threatened to excommunicate their politicians who were pro-choice. The Pope said “yes.” The Vatican then backtracked on the “yes” conveyed by the Pope.

If you are pro-choice, you are at risk. Politicians may find themselves formally excommunicated, but the Church has not yet been prepared to go this far. I would say you will know this in your heart already.

On the other hand, if you have an abortion, pressure someone to have an abortion, support an abortion, pay for an abortion, participate in an abortion --** you are automatically excommunicated**. The pro-choice persons have not formally been declared so by the Vatican.

The priest is at risk of suspension, but the Mass was valid because the congregants who particpated in the Mass have no way of knowing if the priest is in a state of grace. The sin of the priest does not invalidate the Mass. It’s his sin to be pro-choice and he must seek reconciliation. However, if he performs Mass his sin does not extend to create an invalidation of the Mass.

Pro-choice Catholics are instructed to do whatever it takes, intellectually and spiritually, to recognize the Church’s teachings on abortion – that pro-choice means pro-abortion too – that it is inherently evil and to pray that you submit to the Truth.

I see a real conflict though in a priest declaring himself pro-choice, and grave error on the priest’s part – both in his “choice” and conveying it publically.

Only if the woman knows it is a sin of grave matter and carries that penalty.

If the woman having an abortion does not know that having an abortion carries an automatic excommunication with it she is not subject to that penalty, and if she doesn’t even know that having an abortion is a sin of grave matter then she hasn’t committed a mortal sin.

 

[JReducation]

Only if the woman knows it is a sin of grave matter and carries that penalty.

If the woman having an abortion does not know that having an abortion carries an automatic excommunication with it she is not subject to that penalty, and if she doesn’t even know that having an abortion is a sin of grave matter then she hasn’t committed a mortal sin.

First of all, excommunication only applies to Catholics. We can’t excommunicate non-Catholics.

Second, one has to know that the penalty is excommunication.

Third, if the person’s knowledge or freedom is impaired, he has committed a mortal sin, but he is less culpable or not culpable, depending the the degree of the impairment. The act continues to be a mortal sin. What is mitigated is the culpability.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Leegal]

Only if the woman knows it is a sin of grave matter and carries that penalty.

If the woman having an abortion does not know that having an abortion carries an automatic excommunication with it she is not subject to that penalty, and if she doesn’t even know that having an abortion is a sin of grave matter then she hasn’t committed a mortal sin.

She knew, but not about the excommunication; she said she knew what she was doing was wrong and contrary to the Church. Of course, there were other things going on. Pressure from the man; drug use, alcohol. Just a bad lifestyle and many bad decisions.

Thank you.

 

[Leegal]

First of all, excommunication only applies to Catholics. We can’t excommunicate non-Catholics.

Second, one has to know that the penalty is excommunication.

Third, if the person’s knowledge or freedom is impaired, he has committed a mortal sin, but he is less culpable or not culpable, depending the the degree of the impairment. The act continues to be a mortal sin. What is mitigated is the culpability.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

She is Catholic; now reconciled with the Church because she made an appointment with a pastor. She never knew about the excommunication before undertaking her journey back; that was my discovery - hence the question.

This is helpful. I hope others who are confused over this can see this and be reassured that the matter is not an impediment to returning to the Church and receiving reconciliation and absolution. Some sites were misleading or outdated.

 

[yablabo]

She is Catholic; now reconciled with the Church because she made an appointment with a pastor. She never knew about the excommunication before undertaking her journey back; that was my discovery - hence the question.

This is helpful. I hope others who are confused over this can see this and be reassured that the matter is not an impediment to returning to the Church and receiving reconciliation and absolution. Some sites were misleading or outdated.

Hi, Leegal,

I had to have an excommunication lifted back in 2008, not for abortion, though, it was due to apostasy. Anyway, it was made clear to me that while the excommunication was being lifted in the course of the confessional, it was not part of the Sacrament of Penance, but rather preceded it.

The pastor followed a rite in the Roman Ritual to lift the excommunication and re-admit me to the Church. Simple absolution as part of the course of the Sacrament of Penance does not lift an excommunication.

– Nicole

 

[Leegal]

Hi, Leegal,

I had to have an excommunication lifted back in 2008, not for abortion, though, it was due to apostasy. Anyway, it was made clear to me that while the excommunication was being lifted in the course of the confessional, it was not part of the Sacrament of Penance, but rather preceded it.

The pastor followed a rite in the Roman Ritual to lift the excommunication and re-admit me to the Church. Simple absolution as part of the course of the Sacrament of Penance does not lift an excommunication.

– Nicole

Hi.

Hmmm. I realize that the excommunication is separate from the sin of abortion and not a part of the sacrament of penance.

There was no ritual to lift the excommunication. However, the woman did not know she could be excommunicated when she undertook the abortion.

The priest assured her to the point that he said she was absolved and not to be tempted into confessing this in later confessions.

I think JReducation’s response clears this up; she did not even know.

The priest mentioned something about “time” too. She told him that she feared she could not receive reconciliation.

 

[yablabo]

Hi.

Hmmm. I realize that the excommunication is separate from the sin of abortion and not a part of the sacrament of penance.

There was no ritual to lift the excommunication. However, the woman did not know she could be excommunicated when she undertook the abortion.

The priest assured her to the point that he said she was absolved and not to be tempted into confessing this in later confessions.

I think JReducation’s response clears this up; she did not even know.

The priest mentioned something about “time” too. She told him that she feared she could not receive reconciliation.

If the abortion happened before 1983, then she wasn’t excommunicated by Canon Law

 

[Leegal]

If the abortion happened before 1983, then she wasn’t excommunicated by Canon Law

Oh, thank you so much. So, that’s what the priest meant by “the time.”

It did take place prior to 1983.

You have no idea how helpful this will be.

God Bless you.