excommunication

[boppaid]

In another thread someone suggested that by being baptised in another Christian faith they might be excommunicated from the RCC. Is this true? Could someone point me to a website that would indicate this? Does the vatican have a website w/ info like this? I am thinking about a close relative who has done this, but then is back at the RCC.

 

[BryPGuy89]

In another thread someone suggested that by being baptised in another Christian faith they might be excommunicated from the RCC. Is this true? Could someone point me to a website that would indicate this? Does the vatican have a website w/ info like this? I am thinking about a close relative who has done this, but then is back at the RCC.

Not true at all the CCC says all baptisms in the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, with the use of water is acceptable. I had talked about this topic before. Some of my protestant friends say that we’re more liberal about baptisms than their denomnation, as most protestant groups to the best of my knowledge dont accept others, not done by their denomination.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

There might be some confusion here.

If someone is first validly baptized other than in the Catholic Church, the Church acknowledges that they are indeed baptized Christians.

But is the reference here, perhaps, to someone who is baptized in the Church, and then accepts, say, the Baptist assertion that only adult baptism is valid, and then gets baptized again?

Such a person would indeed excommunicate themselves by an act of schism, through their disregard for the teaching authority of the Church. But I’m not sure of what they specifically might have done in the way of offending the sacrament of Baptism. Perhaps this second unnecessary “baptism” constitutes a sacrilege?

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[sadie2723]

There might be some confusion here.

If someone is first validly baptized other than in the Catholic Church, the Church acknowledges that they are indeed baptized Christians.

But is the reference here, perhaps, to someone who is baptized in the Church, and then accepts, say, the Baptist assertion that only adult baptism is valid, and then gets baptized again?

Such a person would indeed excommunicate themselves by an act of schism, through their disregard for the teaching authority of the Church. But I’m not sure of what they specifically might have done in the way of offending the sacrament of Baptism. Perhaps this second unnecessary “baptism” constitutes a sacrilege?

Blessings,

Gerry

The second baptism is just a bath. That is the way the church views it as well. I know a few people that faced this when joining the Catholic Church, and the answer has always been the same: The Church looks to see if one of the baptisms was in the name of the Father and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Which ever baptism met that criteria first is considered valid and anything after that is just a bath in the view of the Church. In the event that you were once validly baptised, it does not matter to the Church how many times you took a bath afterwords…the Church views one baptism as sufficient and the person would thus be accepted.

Now, interestingly, some protestant faiths baptise in the name of Jesus only. In that case, no matter how many times it happened, the baptism is not valid and can’t be accepted by the Church. So, in the event that this happens, and the person wishes to join the RCC, the person is considered a Cathechumen and is baptised finally…once and for all…in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Sixtus]

boppaid

excommunication
In another thread someone suggested that by being baptised in another Christian faith they might be excommunicated from the RCC. Is this true?

NO!

 

[puzzleannie]

If a baptized catechised Catholic formally renounces the Faith and accepts re-baptism in another denomination he has removed himself from full communion with the Catholic Church, that is, he cannot avail himself of Eucharist and the other sacraments unless and until he has confessed this and all other mortal sins to the priest and received absolution. He has, in effect, excommunicated himself. The word means just that, and action that places one outside the community. There is no formal action by any priest or bishop, it is something the person has freely chosen.

 

[sadie2723]

Just a question here. Has anybody out there ever witnessed someone come forward for communion and not receive it because the priest would not give it to them?

I am wondering this in light of the Pope’s recent comments (which I totally agree with by the way) concerning political figures that vote for abortion being denied communion.

I personally think that the Bishops need to back the Pope up on his statement and start enforcing it, but I have never seen anyone denied communion in my life.

Let me know if you have witnessed this. Thanks!!

Brad

 

[puzzleannie]

yes I did witness such an incident, it had nothing to do with politics and abortion, it was a notorious organized crime figure who approached communion during the funeral of a relative. It made the papers at the time, and the priest urged to seek protection which he did not, but he was never harmed. Since this priest knew the man and his family well, I assume he was acting properly in his pastoral responsibility.

 

[BelFarfalla]

If a baptized catechised Catholic formally renounces the Faith and accepts re-baptism in another denomination he has removed himself from full communion with the Catholic Church, that is, he cannot avail himself of Eucharist and the other sacraments unless and until he has confessed this and all other mortal sins to the priest and received absolution. He has, in effect, excommunicated himself. The word means just that, and action that places one outside the community. There is no formal action by any priest or bishop, it is something the person has freely chosen.

But what if the person is re-baptised just to do it, perhaps because they are with a friend and everyone else is doing it. And they had no intent of renouncing thier Catholicism?

 

[Hellisreal]

But what if the person is re-baptised just to do it, perhaps because they are with a friend and everyone else is doing it. And they had no intent of renouncing thier Catholicism?

Are you claiming invincible ignorance in this case?

I think it would still be a self excommunication, personally.

 

[Constantine_XI]

As a friend of BryPGuy89, one of the protestant ones in fact, i can with sincere honesty confirm that in some cases of the protestant wing we do not always recognize the baptism of other christian denominations. In fact when i became baptist a baptism in the Methodist denomination was considered invalid!

I could see some denominations which dont carry out baptism in the name of the Holy Trinity but the Methodist denomination is in most cases very much like the baptist one…

 

[BelFarfalla]

Are you claiming invincible ignorance in this case?

I think it would still be a self excommunication, personally.

geez…

I am wondering if the act a person’s intent plays any part in whether or not it is self excommunication. We had a poster here a week ago whose protestant minister friend invited him to a protestant service and suggested that he just do a one of the group baptisms… you know like it was a social event. Many posters thought that his intent of not converting was what mattered.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

As a friend of BryPGuy89, one of the protestant ones in fact, i can with sincere honesty confirm that in some cases of the protestant wing we do not always recognize the baptism of other christian denominations. In fact when i became baptist a baptism in the Methodist denomination was considered invalid!

I could see some denominations which dont carry out baptism in the name of the Holy Trinity but the Methodist denomination is in most cases very much like the baptist one…

If someone comes from a church that baptizes infants and/or does not immerse, it is not considered a valid baptism by the Baptist church. This was one of those issues that really made me start to question my Baptist faith.

They teach: Baptism isn’t necessary for salvation, it’s just a symbolic profession of faith, it doesn’t do anything, etc… BUT if you were sprinkled as an infant, sorry, that doesn’t count, and you MUST be immersed if you want to be a member of their church.

 

[Hellisreal]

geez…

I am wondering if the act a person’s intent plays any part in whether or not it is self excommunication. We had a poster here a week ago whose protestant minister friend invited him to a protestant service and suggested that he just do a one of the group baptisms… you know like it was a social event. Many posters thought that his intent of not converting was what mattered.

Uh, Sorry BelFarfalla, I did not know about that poster or situation.

Peer pressure is no excuse to do something that a Catholic with a properly formed concsience and formation would ever think of doing under any circumstances, even one that may mean death for refusing to go along.

 

[BelFarfalla]

Uh, Sorry BelFarfalla, I did not know about that poster or situation.

Peer pressure is no excuse to do something that a Catholic with a properly formed concsience and formation would ever think of doing under any circumstances, even one that may mean death for refusing to go along.

I agree.

I was just surprised at how many poeple were saying that as long as his intent was not to convert he was ok. Like a fun thing to do to be social. It was mostly the Prodestants who were taking that point of view.

Seems that the Catholic Church believes that once a person is baptised in the Catholic Church, even if it was not their intent, they are Catholic. Intent here makes no difference.

But is a prodestant baptism is such that it really does nothing but be an outward show of faith… and the person has no intent… ???

 

[Hellisreal]

I agree.

I was just surprised at how many poeple were saying that as long as his intent was not to convert he was ok. Like a fun thing to do to be social. It was mostly the Prodestants who were taking that point of view.

This is not surprising but understandable since there is so little understanding out there about baptism and therefore, much confusion is out there.

Seems that the Catholic Church believes that once a person is baptised in the Catholic Church, even if it was not their intent, they are Catholic. Intent here makes no difference

.

Well, I would need to have a definition of when that person decided it was not their intent. After the age of reason? After their confirmation?

But is a prodestant baptism is such that it really does nothing but be an outward show of faith… and the person has no intent… ???

Excellent question. Sadly, there are so many different views about baptism in Protestant faiths, and different ways of doing baptism in those faiths, that its a bit difficult to address.

 

[Sixtus]

Ironic then that the CC whose standards are usually criticised for how long it takes to become a full-member, recognises any and all Baptism.

 

[Hellisreal]

Ironic then that the CC whose standards are usually criticised for how long it takes to become a full-member, recognises any and all Baptism.

No Sixtus! The CC does not recognize any and all Baptism.

Valid Trinitarian formula with water or no dice. (for the vast majority)

I am not talking by blood or desire now. ect.

Jw, Mormon, ect- would not be valid at all.

 

[BelFarfalla]

Hellisreal:
No Sixtus! The CC does not recognize any and all Baptism.

Valid Trinitarian formula with water or no dice. (for the vast majority)

I am not talking by blood or desire now. ect.

Jw, Mormon, ect- would not be valid at all.

I second this…

 

[BelFarfalla]

Hellisreal:
Well, I would need to have a definition of when that person decided it was not their intent. After the age of reason? After their confirmation?
I believe that the poster was an adult Catholic who had been through all of the sacraments.

As for his intent? From what he said it was just to do something his friend wanted him to do. But he had no intent to leave the Catholic Church. He seemed to think that the protestant baptism meant nothing to is was no big deal to just go along and make his friend happy. Basically caving in to social pressure for what he thought was nothing of significance.