Exorcise America?

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This is a bit bizarre. Why not just bless the people and country, and help improve ways of living to reduce violence and abortion, instead of saying the country is full of demons…
 
simpleas said:
This is a bit bizarre. Why not just bless the people and country, and help improve ways of living to reduce violence and abortion, instead of saying the country is full of demons…
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Why not both?

The fact that they are trying to drive evil out of the country doesn’t exclude them from continuing to do all the other good works they’ve been doing in the country since they got there. Your tone seems to indicate that you don’t believe in demonic influence; how a can you look at the state of Mexico or the US and not seem Satan’s influences.

People can do evil, we know that all too well; but I think The Twilight Zone put it best in the episode The Howling Man:
We cause most of our own grief. We need no help from him (Satan). It is the unnatural catastrophe, the great wars, the overwhelming pestilences, the wholesale sinning that we have stopped.
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Look at the Cartels, the millions of lives lost to abortion, the rampant sexual immorality…
 
I wouldn’t think it would be out of line. Let me clear- I LOVE America, but the changes that have occurred over the past 30 years have me very concerned that we’re swirling the drain as a nation. And when I read Revelations, I strongly feel that the “Whore of Babylon” is the United States and that those punishments will apply to us, and when I look around I see what appear to be Biblical punishments already occurring. Isn’t it interesting, as an example, that right after California passes gay marriage, it goes into a multi-year drought? We, as a nation, have largely turned our backs on God and His commandments. If there’s any chance that it’s due to demonic activity, I would welcome a nationwide exorcism.
 
This is a bit bizarre. Why not just bless the people and country, and help improve ways of living to reduce violence and abortion, instead of saying the country is full of demons…
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Satan’s on us like white on rice. Did you miss his cross country rampage from Ferguson Mo to Baltimore MD where he’s pit cops against youth and communities against cops. Did you miss South Carolina where because they were black, nine were martyred as they shared the Word. Does Satan have to autograph his work for it to be recognized?
 
Why doesn’t a priest make all the water in the universe into holy water too?
 
thinkandmull said:
Why doesn’t a priest make all the water in the universe into holy water too?
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Because a Holy Water blessing requires direct contact with the water, whereas the prayers of this exorcism do not require direct contact with each individual it is being laid upon.
 
simpleas said:
This is a bit bizarre. Why not just bless the people and country, and help improve ways of living to reduce violence and abortion, instead of saying the country is full of demons…
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Only bizarre if you don’t believe in the diabolical. Of course, denying the influence of evil spirits (demons) on us is calling Christ a liar…
 
ProdglArchitect said:
Because a Holy Water blessing requires direct contact with the water, whereas the prayers of this exorcism do not require direct contact with each individual it is being laid upon.
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“prayers of this exorcism do not require direct contact with each individual it is being laid upon”. The Church has not taught on this I believe. Why has the whole world be exorcised yet?
 
thinkandmull said:
“prayers of this exorcism do not require direct contact with each individual it is being laid upon”. The Church has not taught on this I believe. Why has the whole world be exorcised yet?
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Satan is still “king of this world,” albeit defeated by Christ. The Church can’t end all demonic activity until after the Second Coming.
 
thinkandmull said:
“prayers of this exorcism do not require direct contact with each individual it is being laid upon”. The Church has not taught on this I believe. Why has the whole world be exorcised yet?
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This was not the exorcism of a specific spirit or spirits from a specific individual, it was a plea to God to cast the spirits out of an entire nation. It is not unlike Abram asking God to have mercy on Sodom and Gomorrah; or Moses asking God to have mercy on the Exodus Jews. It also has precedent in the history of the Church, when St. Francis invoke this rite on Italy. (This is noted in the article)

Is there some reason you think God would deny the prayers of the Bishops simply because they didn’t lay hands on every individual in the country? You tone suggests that you think the Bishops are wasting their time by praying for the healing of their nation; why?
 
Why hasn’t the Church always had a group of exorcists exorcizing the world every day?

But the Mass is more powerful! Why isn’t the mass used as an exorcism?
 
thinkandmull said:
Why hasn’t the Church always had a group of exorcists exorcizing the world every day?

But the Mass is more powerful! Why isn’t the mass used as an exorcism?
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I don’t think you understand that the sacrifice of the mass serves a different purpose than the rite of exorcism…

The Mass is our partaking of the Christ’s sacrifice, and receiving his body and blood.

The Rite of Exorcism serves a specific purpose, to force a demonic influence out of an individual.

The was a different form of the rite of Exorcism, which was written to cover an entire nation. It is perfectly within the Church’s rights to define these rites and their scopes.

As for why “always had a group of exorcists exorcizing the world every day?”:
#1: This was an extraordinary circumstance which took time and planning to do. It could not happen haphazardly.
#2: Several of the nation’s Bishops came from their respective dioceses to take part, again, not something that can happen without planning, and not something you can do regularly without severely disrupting the Bishop’s ability to tend to the regular needs of their flock.

And, most importantly of all, #3: We do do this every day.

Not with a specific right, mind you, but with the prayers of all the faithful the world over who ask God to have mercy on our world and bring it back to him. There are entire monastic communities who’s devotion is to pray for the world and pray for guidance for the nations within it. The rights of exorcism are, as far as prayers go, extreme forms that are rarely used, and even then only when absolutely necessary. It’s not the Bishops’ job to perform these rights daily, that’s not their purpose. Their job is to lead the Church; the task of shaping our world falls to us far more than it does to them.
 
If exorcism is only for extreme cases, than the cardinal must have thought Mexico was in an extreme case.

Anyway, I don’t see anything more effective for an extreme case of possession then the present of the cross (the mass) and Jesus’s body (communion). How could invented prayers be stronger or more fit than that?
 
That don’t have abortion anymore? Did these end after the exorcism?
 
thinkandmull said:
If exorcism is only for extreme cases, than the cardinal must have thought Mexico was in an extreme case.
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They did… did you even read the article… or what I wrote before? You know, excessively violent cartels, rampant sexual promiscuity coupled with abortion, significant governmental corruption… etc…
Anyway, I don’t see anything more effective for an extreme case of possession then the present of the cross (the mass) and Jesus’s body (communion). How could invented prayers be stronger or more fit than that?
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…You seem to have little to no respect for the authority of the Church or for Christ’s promise to be with her. These aren’t simple invented prayers, they are the official prayers of the Church Christ founded and swore to guide. It’s not a matter of effectiveness, it’s a matter of appropriateness. A crucifix is always present at a proper exorcism, as is a consecrated host (I believe, but am not certain on that part.) In genuine cases of possession, it’s likely that the possessed individual is either unwilling, or unable to receive the host.

Also keep in mind that priests who perform exorcisms have to undergo years of specialized training to be able to perform the Rite. Not every priest is capable of it.

The point is, the mass serves a purpose, and a very powerful one at that. The Communion is the source and summit of our lives. It is not a catch all though. We have prayers for sickness, prayers for lost objects, prayers for lost individuals, prayers for just about anything. The Rite of Exorcism is one more specific prayer, which severs a very specific purpose. It is intended to be used in conjunction with the Mass, and pretty much every other grace the Church can impart on us.
 
Mexico has had strict abortion laws since 2008. I don’t know if it has all ceased. If murders are down, we will have to see how long it lasts. I think Mexico may be having a feel good freedom from evil day, but its always hard to tell what something has a spiritual effect. I mean, can it be empirically discerned that people are better who receive the Sacraments? Of course, maybe the devil attacks more those who have the Sacraments. But still it would not be verifiable.

The Spanish exorcist said: “It would be a big mistake to think that by performing a full scale exorcism of the country everything would automatically change right away.” “when the exorcists of a country drive out its demons, it has to be done in faith. You’re not going to see anything, feel anything, there’s not going to be any extraordinary phenomenon. We have to have faith that God conferred on the apostles a power, and that we can use this power.”

A lot of people demand that sacraments and sacramental be felt and empirically proven
 
ProdglArchitect said:
They did… did you even read the article… or what I wrote before? You know, excessively violent cartels, rampant sexual promiscuity coupled with abortion, significant governmental corruption… etc…

…You seem to have little to no respect for the authority of the Church or for Christ’s promise to be with her. These aren’t simple invented prayers, they are the official prayers of the Church Christ founded and swore to guide. It’s not a matter of effectiveness, it’s a matter of appropriateness. A crucifix is always present at a proper exorcism, as is a consecrated host (I believe, but am not certain on that part.) In genuine cases of possession, it’s likely that the possessed individual is either unwilling, or unable to receive the host.

Also keep in mind that priests who perform exorcisms have to undergo years of specialized training to be able to perform the Rite. Not every priest is capable of it.

The point is, the mass serves a purpose, and a very powerful one at that. The Communion is the source and summit of our lives. It is not a catch all though. We have prayers for sickness, prayers for lost objects, prayers for lost individuals, prayers for just about anything. The Rite of Exorcism is one more specific prayer, which severs a very specific purpose. It is intended to be used in conjunction with the Mass, and pretty much every other grace the Church can impart on us.
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But were does this idea come from that certain prayers are better that others? You see, I interact with Protestants on a daily basis. They believe we are superstitious. Does the Church really back with Her authority (many encyclicals) that the rosary is a special source of grace than making up your own prayers?
 
thinkandmull said:
But were does this idea come from that certain prayers are better that others? You see, I interact with Protestants on a daily basis. They believe we are superstitious. Does the Church really back with Her authority (many encyclicals) that the rosary is a special source of grace than making up your own prayers?
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Yes, it does. Why do you think so many of our Bishops and Priests ask us to pray the rosary for an intention; or why pretty much all of the Marian Apparitions have entreated us to pray it? The Rosary has a special place among prayers, just as Mary has a special place among humanity. That’s not to say that other prayers are useless, or that they’re somehow “worse” than the Rosary; grace doesn’t really work like that. It’s not some limited supply that get’s handed out based on how good your prayers are. It’s limitless, and is given out based on need. Someone who doesn’t need it as much can say a ton of rosaries and still only get while they need, while someone who truly needs it can simply say “God, please help me.” and receive it in abundance. Prayers, and the graces we get from them, can’t be quantified that way.

What can be done it to prescribe specific prayers for specific situations; we have the keys to the kingdom and have been given Christ’s blessings to lead it; which is exactly what we’ve done in prescribing specific prayers for specific situations.

To be honest, I really have no idea what point you’re trying to make anymore. Are you saying that because it can’t be empirically proven then it’s pointless, or that because we don’t see any immediate results then it had no affect at all…? Could you explain what you’re getting at please, so that I can actually address it?
 
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