Gee, it is really a good thing that way back when when science was gaining its footing it was never given a chance. I suppose all scientific knowledge came very quickly and did not take time to develop.
Barbarian, what evidence do you have for your statement? The original post above certainly doesn’t say that.
We’ve given it a lot of time, and can give it some more. The DI can continue to do their research – no one has a problem with that. I’m sure if there is anything to ID, the Holy Spirit will guide us to it in due course.
Agreed!
We are giving them time. The problem is that they are currently asking to be accepted without doing the work, or else claiming persecution when we ask them for some results or point out the problems with their claims. Nobody is denying them an opportunity to prove their claims. We’re just asking that they stop attacking the “Darwinism” boogeyman and get to the business of proving their claims already. You know, what scientists are supposed to do.
Tonyl, they are accepted within the ID community. But they want to be accepted in the non-ID community as well. For that to happen, you’re right that they will have to show reproducible results.
Sure just like cosmology and neo-darwinism. Level playing field boys!
???
Exactly. When, for example, ID makes testable claims that can be verified (and are verified) such as those made by evolutionary theory, then it will be science. Right now, it’s religious belief.
You betcha. Would you like to learn about some of the verified claims of evolutionary theory?
are they reproducible?
Is is possible that many students, upon learning what they’ve been taught about religion cannot be true, decide that all religion is bunk?Sorry, double negative got me on the atheist professor thing. But ricmat, do you refuse to use a car, because half of all mechanical engineering professors are atheists?
I would think your world would be pretty Amish, if you applied the standard you’ve set for biology to all fields.
Do you suppose the fundamentalist claim that science and religion are incompatible, might have something to do with this lack of faith by the educated?
Is is possible that many students, upon learning what they’ve been taught about religion cannot be true, decide that all religion is bunk?
I can tell you for a fact that it happens frequently. And ironically, the ID movement is making it worse. We need more Christians like Ken Miller, who accepts the Catholic point of view, and fewer like Phillip Johnson who accepts the premises of Richard Dawkins.
No problem - everyone makes mistakes. There’s a first time for everything.
“The standard you’ve set for biology?” ???But ricmat, do you refuse to use a car, because half of all mechanical engineering professors are atheists?
I would think your world would be pretty Amish, if you applied the standard you’ve set for biology to all fields.
I’m not a fundamentalist, but what I’ve heard them say is that Genesis and evolution are not compatible. This is quite a bit different than “science and religion are incompatible.”
Yes, I imagine that sort of thing happens sometimes with young earth creationists.
I don’t know that ID is making it worse.
Like Jonathan Wells, or Phillip Johnson?
Ah, out comes the straw man, again…
ID, as you know, is just a repackaging of creationism. It’s making atheists daily.
Very recent. It was invented as a repackaging of creationism to get it into public schools.
No. There are some OE creationists among them as well. And a scattering of those who think God is capable enough to use evolution, but not capable enough to make it work without tinkering with it from time to time.
“Standard” is right. What they trot out when asked to see what ID can offer science, is what science was doing before ID was invented. The few things they tried to make work, like the Explanitory Filter, fell apart on examination.
There are dissenters, but who has the ID opinion that God wants us to “destroy evolution?” Yes, I know that there exist IDers who don’t agree with that. But a director of the Discovery Institute says that it’s his mission.
Genesis is not incompatible with evolution. It is with the creation of man. So we should just focus on whether or not man was supernaurally created by God.No problem - everyone makes mistakes. There’s a first time for everything.
The items below — I think you have me confused with somebody else you’re arguing with. But since you asked, I’ll respond with my own comments which won’t be the same as whoever it was you were arguing with already…
“The standard you’ve set for biology?” ???
I think that the study of biology is a wonderful thing. Evolution “by and large” happened (although we disagree to the extent God intervened along the way). I don’t refuse to “use” biology or cars.
I’m not a fundamentalist, but what I’ve heard them say is that Genesis and evolution are not compatible. This is quite a bit different than “science and religion are incompatible.”
I believe that science and religion are compatible. I’m not the one that says that the two can’t be mixed in any way. That was coming from your side - to the effect of Science can’t tell you anything about God, etc.
Yes, I imagine that sort of thing happens sometimes with young earth creationists.
Is it possible that many students, upon learning that the only things that are real are what science says is real (which of course does not include God) decide that all religion is bunk? I can tell you for a fact that it happens frequently.
I don’t know that ID is making it worse.
ID has been around for hundreds or thousands of years. You often incorrectly equate ID with young earth creationism - based on the admittedly nefarious activities of a small number of recent devotees. ID simply searches for evidence of design (and/or purpose) in nature, using standard scientific methodology.
BTW - “The Catholic point of view” which you refer to above is not “the” as in “only” Catholic point of view. The Church allows belief in young earth creationism, ID, and those forms of evolutionary theory which do not exclude God.
Indeed – God’s supernatural creation of humanity took 3.5 billion years, but “a thousand ages in thy sight are but an evening gone.”
I’ll flip you for it!
What’s the wager – eternal salvation?I’ll flip you for it!
Sounds good.
