Finally. A sensible post.
I don’t understand why some people want to be scandalized over beautiful trappings for the house of the Lord.
It’s not like liturgical beauty and charity for the poor are mutually exclusive.
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I don’t understand why some people want to be scandalized over beautiful trappings for the house of the Lord.
It’s not like liturgical beauty and charity for the poor are mutually exclusive.
K
kentuckyliz
Guest
Because people usually pledge or give restricted gifts when it comes to capital campaigns and charitable outreach programs for the poor. It would be illegal to redirect a restricted gift to another purpose–either way.Yes, but the question remains for some people, couldn’t ***more ***have been given to the poor that was spent on such churches?
It would be just as offensive to donate for the poor and have it redirected to the church building!
I give restricted gifts for certain projects at my church (most recently a stations garden project) and for our support program for the poor. It’s called Giving Bags, and it prepares a box every month for every welfare recipient in the county, of things that food stamps doesn’t buy–household cleaning and toiletries products.
I would be hopping mad if my donations were redirected away from their original purpose!!!
Also, one must consider this. The poor benefit from beautiful churches more than the rich do. Why is that? The poor often live and work in humble or ugly places. The rich can afford beautiful homes and fancy offices. The beautiful church is free and open to all and might be the only beautiful “place” in the unrelenting ugliness of the poor person’s life. They can go there and contemplate God and remember their human dignity and equality that the general society will never affirm for them.
S
seekerz
Guest
Sorry, but what I find problematic is your interpretation of the post you’re responding to.
God is more important than man, even man at his most needy and destitute. Believing that in no way precludes the Christian from loving all men, the poor included. Losing sight of that leads us to all kinds of pseudo-Christian behavior.
Building expensive/elaborate Churches, while not essential to faith, to my mind reflects the importance we give to the things of God.
Most of us live in the nicest, most comfortable homes that we can afford - why skimp where God’s house is concerned?
K
Kathrin
Guest
It does!!!
I would say… in that case it was still good that he did it.
But it would have been even BETTER had he done it for the “right” reasons.
Kathrin
A
Al_Masetti
Guest
Money is a tool … a device for getting stuff done.
When a bizzilionaire makes a contribution for whatever, he “exposes” himself to whatever priest is there to make a statement about faith.
It could be something “easy” like a chronic sinner seeing you with a crucifix in your cubicle at “Atheist Inc.” Or it could be a chronic sinner observing you going to confession in the sacristy after daily Mass.
So, let’s not get our knickers all atwitter about some little issue.
Let us just give thanks to God the Father Almighty.
And to the Son.
And to the Holy Spirit.
Today is the last Sunday of the liturgical year.
The “Good Thief” St. Dismas, we are told ] , the FIRST saint of the Christian Church, was a thoroughly despicable character. He hurt, and maybe killed, a LOT of people.
He may have even been a psychopath. The worst scum of the Earth.
But at that last second, he asked God, very simply, “Remember me in Your Kingdom”.
And Jesus, in excruciating pain, said, “THIS DAY YOU WILL BE WITH ME IN PARADISE.”
[Don’t make your self nuts over this.]
When a bizzilionaire makes a contribution for whatever, he “exposes” himself to whatever priest is there to make a statement about faith.
It could be something “easy” like a chronic sinner seeing you with a crucifix in your cubicle at “Atheist Inc.” Or it could be a chronic sinner observing you going to confession in the sacristy after daily Mass.
So, let’s not get our knickers all atwitter about some little issue.
Let us just give thanks to God the Father Almighty.
And to the Son.
And to the Holy Spirit.
Today is the last Sunday of the liturgical year.
The “Good Thief” St. Dismas, we are told ] , the FIRST saint of the Christian Church, was a thoroughly despicable character. He hurt, and maybe killed, a LOT of people.
He may have even been a psychopath. The worst scum of the Earth.
But at that last second, he asked God, very simply, “Remember me in Your Kingdom”.
And Jesus, in excruciating pain, said, “THIS DAY YOU WILL BE WITH ME IN PARADISE.”
[Don’t make your self nuts over this.]
Yes, it does. And most likely, he will receive no merit from it whatsoever. In the words of the Lord, “he has already received his reward” (the good press).
K
kentuckyliz
Guest
Yeah. I’ve always been impressed with Anonymous donors rather than those who have wings of hospitals and art museums named after themselves.
Rewards on earth vs. rewards in heaven, only the Father sees
Still, I do not judge any giver for any purpose, or conclude their gift is without merit…because only God can discern hearts.
Also…I wonder why people have only ever criticized giving for church building/art/beautification projects. I have never had to explain my similar giving for education building/art/beautification projects. Why not? There’s a lot of waste in education that really isn’t going to the students. If you could see my college’s budget for landscaping and flowers. Sheesh. That serves no educational or even spiritual function. Totally wasteful.
Rewards on earth vs. rewards in heaven, only the Father sees
Still, I do not judge any giver for any purpose, or conclude their gift is without merit…because only God can discern hearts.
Also…I wonder why people have only ever criticized giving for church building/art/beautification projects. I have never had to explain my similar giving for education building/art/beautification projects. Why not? There’s a lot of waste in education that really isn’t going to the students. If you could see my college’s budget for landscaping and flowers. Sheesh. That serves no educational or even spiritual function. Totally wasteful.
N
Newbie2
Guest
Agreed on the first point, on the second, Jesus wasn’t referring to the building.
And just what are you implying??
M
Metaron
Guest
Niether was Sir Knight. He was referring to the assembly and institution of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
N
Newbie2
Guest
Well, then we’re all in agreement.
D
didymus
Guest
When we create something beautiful, especially (but not only) a church we are not just glorifying God, we draw others to Him.
“Others” will be helped when they enter that church and feel God’s presence reflected in what His creatures have built. I doubt they would feel the same if they worshiped in a cinder-block box and gave the difference in building costs to the poor.
T
TC2
Guest
I worship in a cinder block box, and we don’t have much extra money for anything, and I find/feel God just fine.
All the gold in the world won’t lead people to Christ, it’s the hearts of those already there that will show the true fruits of His holiness and love.
All the gold in the world won’t lead people to Christ, it’s the hearts of those already there that will show the true fruits of His holiness and love.
K
Kathrin
Guest
It is a very delicate matter about drawing people to God.
A too “fancy” church might actually keep some people away. Especially people who like to associate Christianity with simplicity of spirit.
Kathrin
A too “fancy” church might actually keep some people away. Especially people who like to associate Christianity with simplicity of spirit.
Kathrin
C
Cecilia_Selby
Guest
I always think that maybe if our churches lookedmore like
churches there would be more work for artists and craftsmen and therfor less poor.
churches there would be more work for artists and craftsmen and therfor less poor.
P
planter654
Guest
You have that right and well said.
Idols, Idols, Idols second commandment. God said; What temple can you build for me when the earth is my foot stool. What happened to Solomns temple? When God commanded Moses there were no Idols but only what “GOD” commanded!!When God destroyed the earth in Noah’s time he did so with a flood, this time he said he will purge it with fire did he not?
Love to all God Bless.
L
LilyM
Guest
God commanded golden cherubs, bronze serpents, pictures of fruit and plants and all manner of other things. And point is HE commanded them EVEN THOUGH He knew they wouldn’t last forever!You have that right and well said.
When God destroyed the earth in Noah’s time he did so with a flood, this time he said he will purge it with fire did he not?
Love to all God Bless.
He takes delight in beauty as we do - He beheld His creation and saw that it was good.
Our love of beauty is one of His gifts, as is our artistic skill - why shouldn’t we use it to its utmost for His greater glory and the delight of His children?
Besides which, what idols do churches have? We have depictions of real people - Christ, Mary, the Saints. We worship none of those things, nor do we believe they are divine.
We have the Sacred Host, which Christ told us was His very body and not a mere symbol, image or idol. We take Him at His word and worship Him present in the Host, for sure.
B
brockmac
Guest
One of the things I love about visiting Italy (I have been blessed to go three times in my life) is the churches. Even the small churches in small towns are beautiful and most are hundreds of years old. They were made in a time when artisans used their talents to honor and glorify the One who blessed them with these talents, as sopposed today when too many artists feel compelled to use there talent to mock God.
Hundreds of years ago, the faithful of a particular town pooled their resources and built a church to glorify God. Today, I can still go into that church and be edified. Through their labor and their money, they created a lasting gift to Christ and His Church and when I go into a beautiful church I try to remember to say a prayer of thanksgiving for the people who built it.
When the woman annointed His feet and some of his followers objected, Jesus replied, “The poor you will always have with you.” and commended her for giving him the honor due him. We do no less when we build beautiful churches to honor Christ present in the Holy Eucharist.
Hundreds of years ago, the faithful of a particular town pooled their resources and built a church to glorify God. Today, I can still go into that church and be edified. Through their labor and their money, they created a lasting gift to Christ and His Church and when I go into a beautiful church I try to remember to say a prayer of thanksgiving for the people who built it.
When the woman annointed His feet and some of his followers objected, Jesus replied, “The poor you will always have with you.” and commended her for giving him the honor due him. We do no less when we build beautiful churches to honor Christ present in the Holy Eucharist.
P
planter654
Guest
S
surfinpure
Guest
I fail to see how a statue equals an idol. That’s a huge leap. One is a work of art, the other is an image of a false god that people worship. No matter how much Protestants want sacred works of art to equal idolatry on our part, it takes a lot more than carving something beautiful out of stone to qualify for that sin.
I’m always puzzled at why people who love to visit museums or have beautiful homes or pieces of art suddenly object to anything beautiful in a church. And why is it that lovely religious music is perfectly fine, but other forms of art, such as painting or sculpting are lavish and idolatrous?
Let us not forget the argument Judas Iscariot made about the woman who washed Jesus’ feet with the expensive oil. *Should not this be sold and the money given to the poor…? *Our Lord didn’t think so.
L
LilyM
Guest
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