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Having spent considerable time on forums over the years, I have been amazed at how many times the discussion of ‘faith alone’ versus ‘faith + works’ eventually comes up and results in some really enthusiastic proponents of both views. Obviously, there are variations on this theme, ‘grace vs works’, ‘belief vs beliefs’, ‘mental ascent vs sensuality’ and it seems there is never an end to the many different opposing thoughts when it comes to ways that a person may or may not be saved.
Each position seems specially tailored to a particular theological form, others claim it is just a direct revelation of Scripture and they give their exegesis. Yet others seeking to push a particular view highlight certain passages and ignore others. But what exactly is the truth in this rather volatile topic.
I was thinking about Abraham, and what struck me about his life and Noah’s life and Moses’ life, and Peter’s life and Paul’s life was this. They all had an ‘experience’ of God.
It seems when it comes to describing this experience, we do use many ways of describing it. The hard core reformers will say, ‘regeneration’, the evangelicals might say ‘born of God’, and some may say, ‘it is all of faith’, or they may quote that all to familiar passage in Ephesians 2, and of course there is the idea that one needs ‘faith and WORKS’. It is a pity that the way that the WORKS idea is added is often done without giving a really clear description of what faith means. (don’t comment on this, read the next stanza,…please)
In my ‘not so humble’ opinion, I think it is a bit like when you get a bottle of cough mixture. One normally pours out some onto a spoon and gulps it down and waits to feel some relief. The ingredients matter little to one who is sick. It is actually the factories or chemists that make sure the labels on the bottle tell you what chemicals and ingredients went into making it. Some of the names like ‘regeneration’, ‘conversion’, ‘atonement’, ‘propitiation’, ‘substitution’, ‘ransom’ are the sorts of words that describe the miracle cure for sin.
Now apart from the fact that we did not accomplish salvation, either by our faith or by our works, or any of the above, for the act of salvation was something that God did. For this we give Him ALL the glory and hold nothing back, but as to what describes the effect that this has upon us; we give it all sorts of names that often allude to something WE have done, knowing full well that eternal life cannot be earned. We are sinners and because of that need for the sin to be dealt with. Trying to remove sin ourselves is something everyone has tried at some point in their lives and experienced how hard it is to live WITHOUT SINNING…it just cannot be done. If so we would have achieved sinless perfection, and we know that, that is IMPOSSIBLE.
So as I was thinking about Abraham’s life, it suddenly struck me….he did have faith and he did do works, but he also had hope, and fear, and any number of things going on between himself and God, and for me they are summed up in one really fantastic word. EXPERIENCE.
Yes, if you do not have an EXPERIENCE with God, it does not matter how much you try to have faith, or do good works, etc. There are simply billions of people who do that every day and they are no closer to having a living dynamic experience with God than a fish wagging it’s tail in the desert an saying ‘gluup, gluup’ is going to live…it shall surely die.
Pophead.
Each position seems specially tailored to a particular theological form, others claim it is just a direct revelation of Scripture and they give their exegesis. Yet others seeking to push a particular view highlight certain passages and ignore others. But what exactly is the truth in this rather volatile topic.
I was thinking about Abraham, and what struck me about his life and Noah’s life and Moses’ life, and Peter’s life and Paul’s life was this. They all had an ‘experience’ of God.
It seems when it comes to describing this experience, we do use many ways of describing it. The hard core reformers will say, ‘regeneration’, the evangelicals might say ‘born of God’, and some may say, ‘it is all of faith’, or they may quote that all to familiar passage in Ephesians 2, and of course there is the idea that one needs ‘faith and WORKS’. It is a pity that the way that the WORKS idea is added is often done without giving a really clear description of what faith means. (don’t comment on this, read the next stanza,…please)
In my ‘not so humble’ opinion, I think it is a bit like when you get a bottle of cough mixture. One normally pours out some onto a spoon and gulps it down and waits to feel some relief. The ingredients matter little to one who is sick. It is actually the factories or chemists that make sure the labels on the bottle tell you what chemicals and ingredients went into making it. Some of the names like ‘regeneration’, ‘conversion’, ‘atonement’, ‘propitiation’, ‘substitution’, ‘ransom’ are the sorts of words that describe the miracle cure for sin.
Now apart from the fact that we did not accomplish salvation, either by our faith or by our works, or any of the above, for the act of salvation was something that God did. For this we give Him ALL the glory and hold nothing back, but as to what describes the effect that this has upon us; we give it all sorts of names that often allude to something WE have done, knowing full well that eternal life cannot be earned. We are sinners and because of that need for the sin to be dealt with. Trying to remove sin ourselves is something everyone has tried at some point in their lives and experienced how hard it is to live WITHOUT SINNING…it just cannot be done. If so we would have achieved sinless perfection, and we know that, that is IMPOSSIBLE.
So as I was thinking about Abraham’s life, it suddenly struck me….he did have faith and he did do works, but he also had hope, and fear, and any number of things going on between himself and God, and for me they are summed up in one really fantastic word. EXPERIENCE.
Yes, if you do not have an EXPERIENCE with God, it does not matter how much you try to have faith, or do good works, etc. There are simply billions of people who do that every day and they are no closer to having a living dynamic experience with God than a fish wagging it’s tail in the desert an saying ‘gluup, gluup’ is going to live…it shall surely die.
Pophead.
